Whats the point of normal nightmare?

[Question]

Why play normal nightmare when after finishing the game on normal, you can just skip to elite?

I mean, we all know everyone is going to jump to elite rather than staying in normal. Theres literlaly no advantage to staying in normal.

That said, theres also literally no advantage to playing normal nightmare rather than playing elite.

Isnt it obvious that the logical progression is normal->normal nightmare->elite?

[Alex]

Nah, but think of this, when you finish your first characther on normal and get to nightmare you are like so happy you wanna continue on that charachter. So the player gets to choose an between 2 alternatives and those are Continue on your normal charachter or you can start all over again with a Elite charachter.

[Credge]

Please don't confuse elite with a natural progression after nightmare. They are entirely seperate.

Elite has harder enemies. Not in levels, but actual hard enemies.

Nightmare has higher level enemies.

[Question]

Eventually you will go to elite anyway. And all that time spent in normal nightmare? Could have been spent in elite. Unless you can bring stuff from normal->elite, staying in normal mode is pointless.

[backfir3]

So you speak for the entire HG:L community when you say not one player is going to stay in normal normal/nightmare mode?

[Syl]

I agree with the OP.
I didn't felt a huge jump in difficulty when I started nightmare, but I read on the forum it was harder after. but really, what the point ?
You need to create a new character to start elite mode, it's not like hell difficulty in Diablo 2 where you had to level up your character through normal and nightmare.

[lockwoodx]

The origional reason for normal nightmare is because Elite mode was going to be a subscriber only feature. Now it's just good pratice for elite mode. Without respecs in the game it is good to try out some of those high end builds before you accually invest seriously into a character.

[Question]

So you speak for the entire HG:L community when you say not one player is going to stay in normal normal/nightmare mode?

On the SEA server the only reason people are staying in normal nightmare is because we dont have elite.

[OnyxAbyss]

I don't like elite. I will never play it again. It is not a "harder" game, it only takes longer and is more tedious. I love being able to run through the game quickly. If I wanted to spend any more than 2 seconds on a mob, I'd go play WoW or TR.

I prefer normal nightmare to elite, because I can keep my kickass engineer and his PHAT loot. Although nightmare is completely broken right now, so I haven't been playing much.

[salad]

i wont start elite until i finish normal nm, just killed the boss on angel passage, still have a lot to go but i dont care, imo its really fun :)
i know most of the players hate nm mode because they think its too hard but like i mentioned on the other posts its just more grinding, and anyways i cant rest until i have a lv 50 character.

[Tsuyu]

Uhm... because there is no way to turn your non-Elite into an Elite character? I don't want to delete the guy I just finished the damn game with, I want to keep on playing with that character.

[Dr.Atsab]

few funny bugs when you complete the normal game.
My friend made a portal from that last map to town and after the transition to nightmare he could teleport to last station and check the store's in there like he was in nightmare, pretty crazy stuff there he told.
Myself when starting the nightmare first time right after Sydonai. I took those first side quests and went to tunnels, monsters were lvl 2 :p I hope I would have had time to run to the end with those low level monsters ;)

[backfir3]

On the SEA server the only reason people are staying in normal nightmare is because we dont have elite.

Again, you don't speak for everyone so try not to ;)

Atm I much prefer normal mode. The run back to your instance upon death in elite is just bad design and trying to group for the harder missions is horrid with the current social interfaces.

I'm playing elite though, in the hope that the promised fixes are going to make it worthwhile.

[imda]

I play my engineer in normal/nightmare and a guardian in elite/normal and both are really hard ...

But i don't really see the point in the elite mode, i'm around lvl 20 and it's quite hard as the mobs are 25 ... there have juste 3x more life and extra damages compared to normal mode. I get owned in a few second, despite my AoD build :( (i'm playing alone). Sometimes i enter the area, there are 2 epics and 1 rare mobs just right there and i die in like 2s ...

Normal/nightmare is funnier even if it's really boring to level up...
I finished normal lvl 26 quite easily.
In nightmare mobs are lvl 33+ in the first act ... 7 levels upon me, cool. I just farm about 1 or 2 hours to lvl up. Then i can clean the next area, then mobs are harder, i have to farm Xp again ... then i can clean the area ... etc etc
it's getting annoying. Normal/normal was really easy even if i was only 25 against 31/32 mobs. But in nightmare, there is a great difference. My tanking drone with 1400hp get owned in something like 3 attacks. I have 750Hp and sometimes i am just oneshot (o_O), i just don't know why. Don't know if i am missing something there ...

A six level difference looks much easier than a seven lvl one ... can't explain why.

During the normal mode i haver never farmed xp and now i have to clean again/again/ag ... in both elite normal and normal nightmare modes. Annoying.

[Sunar]

Whats the point of elite? It takes longer. Yay?

~Sun

[Credge]

Whats the point of elite? It takes longer. Yay?

~Sun

Some enjoy challenge. Killing lots of monsters is fun, but killing lots of monsters that are harder is even more fun.

That is, for some.

[Syl]

I don't know if mobs in elite have more HP, but they beat harder, move faster, trigger effects earlier.
I'm level 13 and I met a legendary mob which could regen...

[Credge]

I don't know if mobs in elite have more HP, but they beat harder, move faster, trigger effects earlier.
I'm level 13 and I met a legendary mob which could regen...

Yep. More HP too. Lots more.

[the_wolf]

Just had a short session in Elite. Well, I love it. It's been a while since I have to chicken out and run away from mobs.

[gurkburk]

Both normal and elite contains the same content though right?
The "only" thing thats modified, is the mobs?
No extra areas whatsoever, no extra loot etc, simply modified mobs?

[NapalmEnema]

Both normal and elite contains the same content though right?
The "only" thing thats modified, is the mobs?
No extra areas whatsoever, no extra loot etc, simply modified mobs?

Allegedly the levels are bigger / more complex but I'm level 12 and it appears to be the same stuff to me.

And yes to everything you said. You are still fighting the same set of 5-6 monsters through the same environments from 'normal mode'.

[buddyp450]

Doesn't all this only mean that elite hardcore is a deathwish?

[NapalmEnema]

Doesn't all this only mean that elite hardcore is a deathwish?

I think you would have to play so conservatively it wouldn't even be fun. Also you would need to probably go with a pet class or with a marksman with escape to have any hope of progressing.

I die constantly on Elite mode, but to play conservatively to make elite hardcore viable would suck any fun out of the game for me.

(also I would have to sub to try it which isn't going to happen at this point)

[Addelina]

Just a quick question about elite-mode, is the loot dropped (potentially) be better then the one in normal? I guess what I'm asking is can a normal character (fully tweaked etc) never really quite be as good as an elite-character fully tweaked or is it simple, you play elite because you want it to be harder to PvE without any actual 'bonus' for it being harder? Can I duel with my elite-character against a normal one?

[NapalmEnema]

Just a quick question about elite-mode, is the loot dropped (potentially) be better then the one in normal? I guess what I'm asking is can a normal character (fully tweaked etc) never really quite be as good as an elite-character fully tweaked or is it simple, you play elite because you want it to be harder to PvE without any actual 'bonus' for it being harder? Can I duel with my elite-character against a normal one?

Elites can't interact with non-elites so I doubt you can duel them. Not sure though. Drops are allegedly better and I seem to be getting some nice stuff, but I can't say if it's 'better' than the stuff that dropped on normal, seems about the same to me. If it were too powerful it would offset the Elite settings of mobs. I think you just get more chances to get good stuff with all the elites sitting around in mobs, and the fact there are more mobs period.

[backfir3]

I think you just get more chances to get good stuff with all the elites sitting around in mobs, and the fact there are more mobs period.

Idd. From what I gather there are more blue and gold names = more chance of better loot. You seem to get the same amount of merch food from standards but there are more so I guess the raw pal/salvage value scales.

The actual quality of equipment seems to be the same.

[Ave]

Eventually you will go to elite anyway. And all that time spent in normal nightmare? Could have been spent in elite. Unless you can bring stuff from normal->elite, staying in normal mode is pointless.

I think you are kind of missing the point of Elite and Nightmare.

Nightmare (although currently a bit broken due to balance issues) is a continuation of the solo game but with higher level mobs and equipment.
Elite is a totally different mode where the mobs have more hits and do more damage, thats it period. The point of it IMO is for grouping. Most say that even soloing up to level 20 onelite is a real challenge if not impossible which is not why i play the game, i play to have fun for a few hours. I will play elite when the guild im in gets more organised and we start doing guild events more in groups, but for solo play i will play on normal.

And when they sort shared stash out you will indeed be able to transfer gear from your level 50 normal character to help level your elite character.

EDIT: On the issue of loot, theres is no better loot on Elite than Normal, the only difference is you get more Rares mobs and bosses in certain areas so you obviously have more drop chances. But in theory a level 20 Elite-normal boss and lvl 20 Normal boss will have the exact same drop rates.
Also then factor that on normal you can kill the bosses and rare mobs way quicker and the relog and repeat the area 2 or 3 times in the same time it will take an elite character to clear it out.

As i said above the point of Elite is purely one of challenge currently, there are no other benefits

[Question]

But you wont be able to transfer gear from normal to elite.

Also it seems most people are reporting more special mobs being spawned in elite...so its not just "harder".

[Ave]

But you wont be able to transfer gear from normal to elite.

Also it seems most people are reporting more special mobs being spawned in elite...so its not just "harder".

Well you will when they implement shared stash as long as your elite and normal characters are on the same account.

And yes there are more special mobs, but as i said above it evens out when you take into account the increased difficulty in killing them.

As a hypothetical example -

Elite mode normal - You enter 'instance x' and find 15 rare mobs and 2 bosses
giving you some obvious nice drop chances, but cause its harder it takes you lets say 45 mins to clear them all out

Normal - you enter the same 'instance x' and find 5 rare mobs and 1 boss but as its easier it takes just 15 mins to clear them out. Then you log off relog and repeat the same instance 3 times or alternatively do another 2 different instances in the same time frame.
Result 15 rare mobs 3 bosses in 45 mins

Obviously in real life it will rarely be as clear cut as this but the basic theory remains solid.
So all you get if you are doing elite solo is basically a longer grind to complete each area and progress. Im not knocking elite mode, far from it, but it is just an increased difficulty setting for those wanting a harder challenge.

[Sapphidia]

Out of interest, what are the highest level mobs in Nightmare?

I know players get a huge disadvantage once they're facing monsters that are lots of levels above them, but assuming you can hit the level cap of 50, and want to complete nightmare, what sort of level range is Act 5 onwards? What about nightmare Sydonai - is he capped at 50 too, or is the entire balance issue due to mobs being far higher than 50?

[Credge]

Out of interest, what are the highest level mobs in Nightmare?

60, I believe.

[Ave]

Out of interest, what are the highest level mobs in Nightmare?

I know players get a huge disadvantage once they're facing monsters that are lots of levels above them, but assuming you can hit the level cap of 50, and want to complete nightmare, what sort of level range is Act 5 onwards? What about nightmare Sydonai - is he capped at 50 too, or is the entire balance issue due to mobs being far higher than 50?

Dont quote me here as i havent done it yet, but from other peoples screen shots and info act 5 nightmare has as credge says lvl 60 mobs and Sydonia is lvl 62 i believe.
Its thought that this is indeed due to them not rebalancing nightmare after they lowered the cap and removed Hell level.

[Sol Invictus]

I've moved this thread over to the new Plains of Despair forum.

http://hellgateguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=102

[onaqui]

Elite is lame, since the drops are too good, you items loose their value. Thats why im staying on normal, its actually harder to get a better char at normal than on elite, so its more prestigue in having a good normal char than having a good elite char.

[sadeiko]

It is NOT easier to get better items on elite. yes there are more rare/elite/legendare mobs but thus far I have gotten 4 legendary chest pieces...no other legendaries at level 14. and even if they did all get spread out ot different usable legendaries it does not compensate for the difference in difficulty. So when you have your BA normal level 50. And I have my BA Elite level 50. Both able to clear rooms in the same amount of time....you can argue all you want...most anyone will tell you level 50 elite is far more impressive than level 50 norm. And the point to a multiplayer item farming game is almost always to just be better than everyone else....weather thats to show off or to help others is up to you but thats it.

[sadeiko]

also for those that are saying everyone will be going to elite. yes its not truely everyone but from what I've seen the majority are. and this game is more fun when grouping...raiding for the most part will never happen on normal.

[Ave]

also for those that are saying everyone will be going to elite. yes its not truely everyone but from what I've seen the majority are. and this game is more fun when grouping...raiding for the most part will never happen on normal.

No i totally agree when i make my first character for group play he will be an elite character, but i just dont see the point solo tbh for 2 reasons.

1) currently i havent played all the characters and i want to play at least 1 from each faction on normals to know what to buy skills wise before i go gimping my new elite character by mistake.
2) I dont really care for whether some lvl 50 elite feels he is better than me, its all an irrelavence. This game and any hack'n'slash rpg is not about that much skill tbh if i had 12 hours a day to put in im sure in no time id have multiple lvl 30+ elite characters.
My point is that to get to level 30'ish and complete normal isnt about skill its about time and tenacity.
A game i played before this was GW and some areas on that were designed to be extremely hard requiring group play or an uber build to complete.
The hardest areas imo on normal and Sydonias hell area and the tests just before that. But neither is impossible even if you had some weak character with low level they eventually muddle through.
Of course thats not to say every elite character has spent ages doing it but they will have on average spent longer than the equivalent normal character, and thats the only 'impressive' thing about it.

It'll be fun in groups with elite but for solo play until im utterly bored of normal i shan't bother i just dont have the time to invest in it or the inclination.

And will people stop perpetuating the myth that they get better equipment, they don't they just find more by the time they are the same level as a normal character.

Difference is that in around the same time the normal character will probably be around 4 or 5 lvls higher cause its quicker.

[V00]

I guess this is more of a question related to this topic.
Im coming around to the end of Normal mode and want to continue on. When does the loot get better? And is there a difference in the loot that drops in Elite vs Normal or Nightmare?

Because, honestly, probably unlike the many of you, I was really looking forward to a Diablo 2: LOD type game where its ALL ABOUT THE LOOT. I remember, the elite sets like Griswolds, runewords like HOTO, and armors like Templar's might. That kept me going to the end farming boss after boss, over and over again. However so far, I am having none of that in normal mode. I only hope it's because this is like normal in diablo where loot is all crap at the beginning.

Somebody please clarify when the leet stuff shows up and makes bosses worth farming until my eyes bleed - elite or nightmare?

[Ave]

I guess this is more of a question related to this topic.
Im coming around to the end of Normal mode and want to continue on. When does the loot get better? And is there a difference in the loot that drops in Elite vs Normal or Nightmare?

Because, honestly, probably unlike the many of you, I was really looking forward to a Diablo 2: LOD type game where its ALL ABOUT THE LOOT. I remember, the elite sets like Griswolds, runewords like HOTO, and armors like Templar's might. That kept me going to the end farming boss after boss, over and over again. However so far, I am having none of that in normal mode. I only hope it's because this is like normal in diablo where loot is all crap at the beginning.

Somebody please clarify when the leet stuff shows up and makes bosses worth farming until my eyes bleed - elite or nightmare?

Well as ive said many times on this issue if you (like me) are a loot bunny then elite mode is just an unneeded chore. It has more rare monsters and bosses but it will take you longer to complete and the loot is essentially no better.
For example a lvl 20 normal boss will have same drop rates as a
Lvl 20 normal-elite boss
But difference is you will find more of them (bosses) in elite but they will be 3 or 4 times harder to kill.

I just started Nightmare and the loot really does improve, to my knowledge there arent any sets yet in the game (wait a few content patches for those) but i have so far replaced 75% of my gear in time it took me to get to covent garden from starting Nightmare.
Id personally say give Nightmare normal a go and see what you think its way easier than doing a whole new character.

And yes basically normal is like D2 normal a pointless exercise to get you ready for nightmare.

[V00]

@Ave

Woot Thank you! you've given me the motivation to continue... I was really starting to wonder if anything nice drops in this game.

I have played many RPGs and for some reason have a fascination with loot. FFXI was ok for it, but it was really too tedious to get (actually geting to lvl 50 is rediculous alone). WoW had the best system for my loot addiction. The set items were worth the instance farm just to look "cool". However the high-tiered epic sets required full raids, and unfortunately i don't have patience for 40-man raids.

So my sights were set on Hellgate. But so far, I still am getting nothing. But if what you say is true, then i'll play on lol. And Please Flagship, start introducing the leet loot! I will subscribe once i see word in the form of a compendium :)

*I also sincerely apologize to all if I have made you sick with my addiction to virtual vanity lol*