Dynamic Talent Points

[biotoxin]

One thing that would be nice to see in this game regarding talent points, would be the ability to keep them dynamic and not written in stone once you decide.

What i mean by "dynamic" would be that all your talent points have the ability to be moved around at any time. By keeping them unlocked you can change aspects of your character at any time and see immediate improvement.

One thing that is frustrating is trying an experimental build and then having to re-roll another character because the talent system you had thought of didnt work. Dynamic talents would solve this problem and give players the flexibility to try new specs even at higher levels.

[Wobbley]

Thats the whole point of the game. If they did that dynamic shit it would be like GW, and we all know how that turned out in the end :roll:

[BDStyle]

Yeah, it stayed a game that was good fun if you don't play it religiously 9-5.

I'll never get over GW bashing for the changes, I still love it and played since beta.

@OP
I must admit sometimes I miss the idea then think... well it would detract from the fun of aiming to that uber build :)

I must of started a hundred diablo 2 chars just to try out different builds, I'd never have to do that with dynamic points.. I'd only need 6.

[biotoxin]

Well i never played Guild Wars so i cant comment on that. I just remember dumping tons of gold respec'ing in WoW and it was incredibly annoying.

[konfeta]

Titan Quest had it best IMO.

You took out points individually, with increasing cost per point. In Hellgate, with proper Palladium cost choices, it would allow people to undo minor mistakes, redo builds around a little for moderate-high cost, maybe twice, and completely change their spec once but at cost of massive amounts of Palladium.

[Mythrignoc]

^Agrees with Konfeta.

For realism, Dynamic skill points would never have a place in this game, but for game mechanics and character options, that might work best if say the Tech's had that ability or something.

Although, if it were to be a real thing, making it free would be basically PlugY for diablo 2. It's a cool and decently made mod, but no matter how you look at it, it's pretty much a trainer/cheat.

[random.name]

The constant recreating of chars is what puts me off the most. If something could be added where you could create a level 50 char on a test server to try out the build I would love them forever, or at least until the next game was released.

[Wobbley]

The constant recreating of chars is what puts me off the most. If something could be added where you could create a level 50 char on a test server to try out the build I would love them forever, or at least until the next game was released.

It's called single player and trainers xP

[Redwuppie]

The Diablo 2 system of skills/talents being permanent is old and archaic.

WoW, GuildWars, Titan Quest have all tried to fix this to varying degrees. All of which I have played extensively.

WoW & Titan Quest have a far better system than GuildWars in my opinion.
(I can elaborate if people wish).

The problems with locking in your talent/skill choices means that you must have foresight to see what builds are viable for the harder difficulties. Something that is not possible from the outset.

Any ARPG on normal is beatable with even random style builds, from then on focus is the key to success in the harder difficulties.

My main issue (and probably a common one) is that I sink 20+hrs into a character to complete the game, then upon entering the next difficulty realise I have to reroll and replay the game on normal due to some poor choices I made whilst not only learning the game mechanics but by experimenting with different class abilities.

Respeccing will not detract from the game overly. From a development stand point it has the benefit of allowing them to rebalance all skills however they choose without nullifying peoples characters as an affected player can merely respec to a new, prefered build.

Come on, people opposed to respeccing are elitist at worst or fools at best.

Flagship Studios needs to think beyond Diablo 2 if they truly intend to make its spiritual successor a SUCCESS!

/endrant

[backfir3]

The Diablo 2 system of skills/talents being permanent is.. blah.. blah..


Agreed. Entirely.

[Mewcatus]

As everyone knows there is a distinct difference between PvP and quest play, as such even different builds. Heck, there is even the fun play, whereby players choose to do it based on their own perceptions, philosophy and ideals.

So I am quite sad and irritated, when players complain about how their accounts are not PvP build, whereby their skill points are wasted blah blah, and simply deleting it and restarting it all over just to get the "Correct" Build.

In my honest opinion, I am sure MANY players find this static leveling system quite cumbersome and 1 track, ever since its evolution from its hey days.

So I want to suggest a work around, in which ONE single account can account for all 3 modes of play, mainly PvP, Quest Play and Fun Play.

Here is my suggestion.

An in game system or item which does this. When system or item is used, the following things occur:

1. While a player is using this system, he enters the "Ghosting" mode (Just a term i made up).

2. Say that initially you have 800 000 exp.

3. Total experience you have accumulated is cut by 1/2. BUT, all stats added and skill points added is totally resetted. Your exp at this point is cut to 400 000 exp

3. From this point forth, leveling from 400 000 exp to 800 000 exp will take only 50%~75% less time. In other words, exp gain is increased 2 folds to 4 folds. This value is up for suggestion, it is open for debate.

4. While you are in "Ghosting" mode, you can keep resetting ur exp level back to the 400 000 exp mark, so that you can keep experimenting.

5. Once you reach 800 00 exp, your previous exp level, you can choose whether to turn off or on the "Ghosting" mode off. Choosing 'yes', KEEPS your experience at 800 000 without change. Choosing 'no' turns it off, and all experience gain is returned to normal.

6. In this way, a player can have fun doing all 3 modes on 1 account, WITHOUT having to reset over and over again, which I frankly find, a waste of time.

7. PvP players who build from the start can also not complain, since the bonus gain is NOT forever, and is limited to what you have accomplished so far.

8. To be fair, a cost should be in place, say it cost 1000 gold / level of the player to enter this ghosting mode.

9. I term this as a dynamic gaming experience( as oppose to the static system so commonly used in most mmorpgs), whereby changes can take place if and when you please to suit the mode you choose to.

I have many many more suggestions which i like to share on enhancing gameplay. If you like, I will be more then willing to put more of them out, to the benefit of all players

[Superb]

As everyone knows there is a distinct difference between PvP and quest play

Remember THIS IS NOT WOW. I haven't been to nightmare yet, but i've played loads of D2 (and WoW). There is no comparison with the level of variation and requirements an MMO has that can make a character an one-trick pony. In HGL, unless you gimp yourself on purpose or through ignorance the first time round, you can do it all pretty well with one spec. You can specialize, but that will not leave you defenseless.

Any system that allows you to respec for money would radically change the way Hellgate is played. HGL is not WoW, and i think Flagship wanted to emphasize that. That's also why non-subscribers get limited character slots (sucks i know), you are supposed to create and enjoy multiple characters. Your first play-through might be special, but then the real game begins!

I support a limited, error-correction only system with heavy restrictions and absolutely no palladium or any tradeable items involved. This is not an MMO. An unrestricted respec system like in WoW (essentially free since the changes in the economy with Burning Crusade, low cost anyway) would positively ruin the game, not unlike a trainer does. Good fun for a couple of days and then everyone gets bored and stops playing.

[Mewcatus]

My system does not give pple a free pass, they still have to do releveling as a trade off, and have to spend both time and money.

Heck if you r worried that it is would cause people NOT to subscribe, why not make this system a SUBSCRIBER ONLY bonus??

Lets see whether you can draw players into the game.

This game does not even give allowances for say, WHEN u accidently add points into the system. 1 Click, and you r a goner, there isn't a YES and NO confirmation even. These are all signs pointing to a lack of basic friendly user interface.

And for ur information, cutting 100 million exp down to 50 million exp is ALOT!!!

That will force pple to still have to spend time redoing the char.

Other people who have perfect theirs, can just simply go on to create a new one. They WILL still be ahead. So whats the difference?

Ends up, retraining, 1 L50 char, the guy who gets it right 1st time, 2 L50 char

[frnch]

So what do you propose instead of the fix attrib points??

In my example.. I just bought te game and i knew the attrib points where fixed so what i did was simply reading this forum searching for the best build there is and im gonna make my char up to it.

If people wants to spend lots of time making perfect build then let them... Then u can make a difference between people just playin for fun and people playing to pwn the rest...

[Mewcatus]

My point is, what is wrong with being able to redo what you have done? Those who think they got it correct the 1st time round congrats, then you can move to ur 2nd or maybe even on to ur 3rd perfect build char.

This gives every newbie a fair advantage, because, not everyone scour forums or have the time to. Leting people have the ability to change what they think have done wrong gives people the perception that it isn't the end of the world.

The only pple who disagree to these type of systems, are the self proclaimed elites, hardcores, pros. Do they fear that newbies can catch up to them? And how much of the actual server population do they make up, in comparision to the newbie type players?

Remember the ones who pay to play. An elite will quickly get all his levels, items then would switch off his subscription. For the rest, they will take a longer time to play. So which segment should FSS target now?

[Superb]

Mewcatus, your system is way too complicated to implement. People don't like complicated, especially newbies. Again i must stress, this is not an MMO. Newbies aren't at any disadvantage here. They can play at their own pace. You know very well that a hardcore player will level ten times faster than a casual newbie no matter what, so it doesn't make any difference.

All kinds of players disagree with unlimited respecs because it ruins the game. Same as infinite lives or health. Too hard to resist, too boring to keep playing. It goes against the ancient maxim of action games: if at first you don't succeed, try again! It also makes your very own character that you invested time and effort in, completely meaningless - just like everyone else.

However, you do make a good point: there are "newbie" players out there, young players who haven't even played Diablo and others who are just new to this. They won't like it when their "i want to try every skill" build can't even beat the normal game (it is possible) and some will be turned off by this. Most hardcore players will also hack the single player mode anyway just to try out the skills.

So, another proposal: Give the ability of (limited) respecs for normal mode. Make it a lengthy repeatable quest, make it really expensive, or even give it a huge cooldown (a week or two, possibly increasing), but keep it for normal mode only. This way players new to the game and beta veterans alike will level more comfortably and get a fuller idea of their class(es), and nightmare and above levels will be the real deal.

[Mewcatus]

Why not just allow players in normal mode to have the option to redo their skill points again? Since they will probably struggle along. Giving them this option helps.

Like I said, the user interface for allocation of points is totally unforgiving. There SHOULD be at least a warning confirmation screen, after addition of skill
/attribute points before exiting the inventory/skill list, that the changes made WILL be permenent.

Lets see how YOU like it if you play it drunk at L50 and accidentally put the last point into something you deemed unworthy!

Anywayz, if you want a simpler form of the Dynamic system, why not just make that a pay option. 10 US Dollars to reset skill/attribute points once. Functional, yet people would pay to use it.

Detractors who refuse to pay for the Programmer's hardwork, can simply take the long route, and redo.

[Superb]

Lets see how YOU like it if you play it drunk at L50 and accidentally put the last point into something you deemed unworthy!

If i am that stupid i will make a youtube video to help more people flame me and see how stupid i am. Seriously though, you just don't make mistakes with something that important. If you do, it's your fault entirely.


Why not just allow players in normal mode to have the option to redo their skill points again? Since they will probably struggle along. Giving them this option helps.

That's what i said, but it still needs to be limited. If you want to try a dozen builds, then you should have to make a few characters. Or how about unlimited respecs in normal mode single-player only? This will lead to less hacking too, i imagine (inexperienced people can into all sorts of trouble with hacks).

10 US Dollars to reset skill/attribute points once.

You know, paying real money for in-game goods is a major no-no, but in this case it doesn't sound that bad. I feel like i should disagree, but i can't find a reason to! It seems to me that in practice that would work, keeping respecs limited, yet available. The only immediate drawback i can think of is that forums and the press alike will probably accuse Flagship of milking players for every last cent. However, this is one feature actually worth paying for.

As for a confirmation, i don't think it will help at all. People already know that skill points are permanent, and many players are known to not even read tooltips*! Also, anything requiring you to press an extra button every time you level is a bad thing.


*yes, tooltips could use some more work

[Redwuppie]

If i am that stupid i will make a youtube video to help more people flame me and see how stupid i am. Seriously though, you just don't make mistakes with something that important. If you do, it's your fault entirely.

Thats a tad harsh dude. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Also, this is a game, so needs to remain fun. Punishing people for making mistakes is lame in this context.


That's what i said, but it still needs to be limited. If you want to try a dozen builds, then you should have to make a few characters. Or how about unlimited respecs in normal mode single-player only? This will lead to less hacking too, i imagine (inexperienced people can into all sorts of trouble with hacks).

Why? So far I havent seen a truly valid reason for requiring you to replay the game to try multiple builds. For heavens sake, its my time and I should be able to explore all options with the one character per class.

Note that I dont advocate free, unlimited respecs. Maybe scaling costs as you remove single skill/talent points (like Titan Quest) that cap at a particular value. Remember that having respec costs tied into ingame currency will require that player to go and farm.

For instance: Lets assume a toon takes 20hrs on average to reach the point that they may want to respec (eg; start of nightmare). Make the cost to respec approx 2hrs. That way people can play a levelling spec for normal (carnagator for summoners for instance) then switch to a prime build for the harder difficulties.


You know, paying real money for in-game goods is a major no-no, but in this case it doesn't sound that bad. I feel like i should disagree

And you should disagree. Paying real money for what should (subj) be an ingame feature, with an ingame resolution is a horrible solution that is open to complete and utter abuse.


I believe a few people have mentioned that this is not an MMO and therefore doesnt warrant a need for respec? I think that you are missing one of the key benefits by allowing respecs from a developer point: Balancing (eg, nerf bat, buff stick effects) will be easier to make if people are able to respec based on developer balancing decisions and not need to replay, refarm and restart. Remember this game has a PvP option which is the main source of ability balancing concerns. By careful balancing and respec allowance, the PvP content will not end up being dominated by 2-3 builds by allowing a dynamic, balanced game.

[Mewcatus]

TY, that's another point i wanted to bring up, nerfs, checks and balances are all still underway, as such, one build today, could no longer be viable tomorrow, after the patch.

Anywayz, i still support the 10 dollars per reset skill/stat points route. Not particularly abusive, yet helps to line pockets too. A win win for both sides.

On a sidenote: I honestly don't mind paying for extra goodies online. As I think it inself is to give motivation to developers to put more effort into the game.

[Superb]

Thats a tad harsh dude. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time.

Allow me to disagree. You can't just misclick a skill point (which is what i was replying to) in the same way as you can't delete your Program Files folder accidentaly. It's not harsh to point that out, and as you see i included myself. Now, changing your mind is another thing, quite different to clicking the wrong button.

For heavens sake, its my time and I should be able to explore all options with the one character per class.

That's like saying "it's my time and i want to win all the time". You "shouldn't" be able to do anything. This is the game, like it or not. We all would like to see some changes, but we have no right at all to demand any. Your only hard option is to not play the game if you don't like it as it is. We can all ask for things and suggest changes, but remember that the developers have the final word and we have no authority over them (short of not buying their next game).

Remember that having respec costs tied into ingame currency will require that player to go and farm.

And this is why i disagree with in-game costs. I believe that it will change the game too much. If you are going to invest all that time farming, make a new character! Plus, it will inevitably lead to professional gold farming and selling. On the other hand a real-life fee is more controllable and doesn't impact the game at all. I can't see how it is open to abuse (that doesn't mean it isn't; i just can't think of ways) if there is a cooldown with that option as well.

Needless to say, if there are any major reviews of skill trees, the characters should be allowed to reset their skill points. Maybe they have taken this into account already, as balance changes are inevitable in the course of the game and the developers should know that really well.

Being allowed a respec upon entering Nightmare difficulty is another idea. Normal mode doesn't take that long to play through.

* - - - - *

A note on all this: The reason that i oppose respecs unless they are very carefully restricted, is that they take away from the game one of its stronger aspects: character creation. By allowing respecs your character becomes a generic table of points that you move around, and not the character that you personally built and tried out while slashing through thousands of monsters. There is no planning and thinking ahead, or adapting to changing needs; The solution to every problem is just a reset away, which defeats the point of having more skills that you can put points into and robs the game of its sense of achievment and progress.

Another reason is that respecs, even limited, will inevitably lead to a lot more cookie-cutter characters with the same skills and same items playing in exactly the same way because it is considered the most efficient. Without respecs this is usually limited to the more hardcore players.

Anyway, food for thought... i really don't think we will see any changes here anytime soon. My trial character is growing, and my horribly spread skill points don't hinder me so far :). If anything, this toon will show me how far you can get with a "bad" skill setup in normal mode.

[Mewcatus]

Abt ur cookie cutter character analogy, i beg to defer, it is precisely because that option to repec in case of how bad is it, that I dare to go all the way with a seemingly bad build, just to see how fair I can reach.

It can serve as a safety net, allowing players to go all out crazy doing stupid builds, but with a chance (Abeit at a cost) to try to slightly alter that.

That said, the chance to respec would be limited and restrictive.
1. 1 time cost of 10 US dollars per month => Pays developers
2. Restricted to 1 respec per month per char => Prevents overuse.
3. Cuts overall Exp gained by 50%, thus dropping your levels. => U have to backtrack to help others quest, inorder to gain back that exp.
4. Workable ONLY in normal mode.

How's that sound? Trying to satisfy as many sides as possible, and with the developer's angle thrown in to help them cover costs. :)

Edit: I do agree with many points you stated though, and can see some of the issues you are trying to highlight.

[Mythrignoc]

Come on, people opposed to respeccing are elitist at worst or fools at best.

And yet it's this fact that presents many of the challenges of an Action RPG. So it's challenge and realism versus replay options and less player frustration, and for me, I stand by realism. Most games aren't realistic at all in thousands of way, but I praise a company for trying to implement realism. I praise oblivion for trying to make realism even though the game is still a piss poor game, and I praise Hellgate London for making some restraints and limitations to a character so you actually have to think to be a good character and not just fluke your way into godhood.

BTW, Respeccing and Speccing aren't words.

[Superb]

1. 1 time cost of 10 US dollars per month => Pays developers
2. Restricted to 1 respec per month per char => Prevents overuse.
3. Cuts overall Exp gained by 50%, thus dropping your levels. => U have to backtrack to help others quest, inorder to gain back that exp.
4. Workable ONLY in normal mode.

I am not sure how many levels 50% would drop you, other than that it sounds about right :).

Respeccing and Speccing aren't words.

Welcome to teh internets! Btw i looked it up and accodring to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary "spec" is a legitimate verb since 1965 (it also includes "speccing" and "specced").

[Redwuppie]

For starters, keep discussions about semantics and word definitions (or existence in this case) away. Its off topic and you seem to have understood me so your comment is merely meant to inflame the discussion.

And yet it's this fact that presents many of the challenges of an Action RPG. So it's challenge and realism versus replay options and less player frustration, and for me, I stand by realism. Most games aren't realistic at all in thousands of way, but I praise a company for trying to implement realism. I praise oblivion for trying to make realism even though the game is still a piss poor game, and I praise Hellgate London for making some restraints and limitations to a character so you actually have to think to be a good character and not just fluke your way into godhood.

Allow me to respond by quoting myself from a different thread:

The argument that it is a roleplaying game and therefore respecs should not be allowed is horribly mislead.

For starters if role-playing consistency was so important in HGL then flesh beasts wouldn’t drop swords, guns, armour etc. Why do they have them? Also, imps would drop the swords, guns, armour etc that they are actually carrying. Why do demons need palladium? Why do demons need health, power injectors (that they never seem to use)? Why do people place delicate "analysers" that are destroyed on use in creates that when blown up seem to protect the delicate analysers? /endrant

Respecing does not require internal role-playing consistency for the very same reason as all the above - its a G-A-M-E !!!

The only people I can see who would be opposed to this are Multiplayer's (PvP) and elitist jerks who don't want people "copying them" or some such rubbish.

Lastly (at least for the moment), having the option to respec does not require you to use it. If you prefer making static choices and decide to try a different build then you are free to reroll. Those not wishing to give up 20hrs+ aren't forced to.

Redness !!

[Superb]

The only people I can see who would be opposed to this are Multiplayer's (PvP) and elitist jerks who don't want people "copying them" or some such rubbish.

I beg to differ. I coudn't care less for elitist jerks, or anti-elitist jerks for that matter. I oppose unrestricted respecs because it ruins the sense of achievment of building a character. It is too much of a good thing. Character development means nothing if you don't have to decide which path to choose. How exactly does that make me an elitist jerk? If i wanted to copy someone else's spec what is stopping me from powerleveling a new character anyway?

[Hisstok]

OMHO Respecs will probably cost a large amount of AP, which would overall be equal to hardcore and casual players, it takes a long time to farm up 500 or so ap, but pretty much everyone will have it by the time they get to a level where they really want to respec, hardcore players could farm thier brains out to get a 2nd or 3rd respec from the rough ones like boss farming.

People just need to stop bitching and enjoy the game, you wont have 100% effecient skill point or stat point usage until everything ingame is documented in 6 months and you can plan out your ridicilous one trick pony character to your hearts content.

[Dopeloser]

Of my point of view respeccing is good, I've deleted roughly 5 chars sofar to start again, because I didn't like the choices I made. Main problem is, that the time I have availible, is limited to aprox 2hours a day on workdays. More people will have this problem, I'm sure.

Do you know how hard it is to redo a character again, with only a wee of playtime availbile? Exactly, It will take ages to get back to your previous level. You can ofcourse say, "You chose the wrong this, its your fault". How would a person know if the skill is faulty or not, when your hardly able to test it? How would you know that you need x stat points for higher level gear, when you can't find any info about it, etc. etc. . Those claims are unjustified, period. The 'your chose is permenant' system is old and outdated.

And if this function also goes subscriber only, just as alot of crap, I'll say screw HG:L, since you gotta pay big bucks for (imo) normal stuff you would get for free with alot of other games. Back 2 WoW it is then.

[Zycat]

No respect for no respec, simple as that.

I won't waste time anymore for a game that allows for no respec. I expect Hellgate to have a respec so I keep playing.

[sadeiko]

I must of started a hundred diablo 2 chars just to try out different builds, I'd never have to do that with dynamic points.. I'd only need 6.

any game that you can play through the first 10 minutes of 99 times and still have the will to play it a 100th time....Thats a good game...Thats the point.

Would you have played to level 10 with 100 wow characters? would you regret it?

[Shai]

I was about to write a big story about Guild Wars, how much I liked the respeccing system and why I think the respeccing system is usefull there (and why it isn't as usefull here), but that became to long and would only bore most of the people here.
The most important thing we should remember from Hellgate London is that the developers designed the skills to be effective on any level with only minor increasements when investing skill points. Therefore a "good" "build" could be made with like five skill points alone (not entirely true I know, but in general leveling skills beyond level one only has little effect)
The other thing to remember is that this game is still in dire need of some updates (of which the fact that I can't see my teammates in some instances) and some of these updates will likely include some skill changes and balances.

Although I would like to test the concept of the "gun-guardian" on my "shield-guardian", I think part of the game is to design your character in the way you like (in my case a guardian with a shield). If one doesn't like the way it is played one should know it in say 10 levels and respeccing is not nescesary. As stated the game should have the difficulty in such way that it is possible to make it with any build (although I seen people state differently concerning elite nightmare and such) and I would say that if the build is not "perfect", then it will just be harder and probably more fun.
There are of course possibilities where people accidentally click the wrong skill, raise a skill one level to far or worse. People could for instance go for an "unknown" skill and spend more than 10 points just to get a skill that disappoints.


My suggestions:
-Make a minor possibility to change skill and possibly attribute points, for instance by collecting x experience or paying y palladium (possibly increasing and possibly with a limit) (however I would go for say 1 "change point" for every say 5 levels)
-Give players the possibility to "test" skills and possibly builds for instance by the ghost mode idea (where you could for instance stop experience gain and make a "save point", use any number of skill points and test and when testing is over, remove the experience stop, use the skill points in any way and this time permanent) or in pvp (like Guild Wars, where you can create a lvl50 PvP character with which you can of course test all skills.
Of course this last option is possible in SP with trainers and such, but apart from the fact that I don't like downloading singleplayer saves or trainers and use them it can also be dangerous because of virusses and such, I do want to have the opportunity, but I don't like to be "forced" to use methods like these

[backfir3]

Just make them dynamic. We'll all get over the loss of achievement we felt when we built our 'perfect' character and start to appreciate being able to play any build without having to roll 5 different versions of our favorite class.

Fixed skill points belong with D2 and Wow, as party of history. HGL is supposed to be the future and should bloody well start acting like it.

[sadeiko]

I want memorable moments in the game. Thats what these games are. When I start running around with another player. I want to see him later and say whoa its you! That awesome sniping mm I was running around with...man you were able to insta kill anything that put my health in danger hows it goin?

"oh I don't snipe anymore....I get up in their face now and shoot millions of bullets"

The problem I have with the arguements for respeccing is the terms "I should be able to do this without HAVING to remake another charcter and level all over again"

1. Leveling is easy
2. You can transfer your gear
3. If leveling and item grabbing turns you off....wrong game for you

Ok yeah so you wasted time....guess what? Act one is click click kill kill
Act 5 is click click kill kill.

If subtraction from your time playing at end game is your issue...can you tell me exactly why people against respecs are the elitists? We're the people who have no issue playing through the early parts of the game.

Keep in mind this is a multiplayer game. No repeccing changes the statement "we need a blademaster" to "We need <character name>"

And my final arguemnts....if respecs exist? why have classes? 2 modifiable character models, one for female one for male. then 1 massive skill tree where points in 1 tree disable others, would be all you need, then allow for respecs.

This type of blending would ruin the game so why would it be ok for a gun guardian to become a sheild guardian when it all intents and purposes they are 2 different classes.

Sure you are going to return from that argument that there are different classes for a reason...well guess what...there are different subclasses for a reason as well. YOU SHOULD have to re-roll to try out differnet subclasses otherwise it would be no different than saying you should be able to respec from guardian to evoker.

[backfir3]

I want memorable moments in the game. Thats what these games are. When I start running around with another player. I want to see him later and say whoa its you! That awesome sniping mm I was running around with...man you were able to insta kill anything that put my health in danger hows it goin?

"oh I don't snipe anymore....I get up in their face now and shoot millions of bullets".

And this will impede your enjoyment how so? You will still have the memory and the player will be able to re-roll back to the ealier build. A pointless argument.

The problem I have with the arguements for respeccing is the terms "I should be able to do this without HAVING to remake another charcter and level all over again"

1. Leveling is easy


Leveling is time consuming. Not everyone has enough time to roll 2-3+ different versions of each class to enjoy every aspect the game has to offer.


3. If leveling and item grabbing turns you off....wrong game for you


This has nothing to do with the argument in question. This will be the core of the game regardless of how skill points work.



If subtraction from your time playing at end game is your issue...can you tell me exactly why people against respecs are the elitists? We're the people who have no issue playing through the early parts of the game.


If end game play becomes tightly focused on specific groups with very specific builds, and you want to be involved in all aspects as you enjoy playing all character types.. you'll happily roll 2-3 lvl 50 chars for each class just so this would be possible?


And my final arguemnts....if respecs exist? why have classes? 2 modifiable character models, one for female one for male. then 1 massive skill tree where points in 1 tree disable others, would be all you need, then allow for respecs.


This type of blending would ruin the game so why would it be ok for a gun guardian to become a sheild guardian when it all intents and purposes they are 2 different classes.


YOU SHOULD have to re-roll to try out differnet subclasses otherwise it would be no different than saying you should be able to respec from guardian to evoker.

Now you're just being thoughtless. Asking for dynamic points is in no way equal to asking for all skills to be open for every character type. It doesn't cheapen your own Gun Guardian just because I can switch my shield gurdians points to match yours if I can just re-roll and copy it anyway. Your argument is saying I should be forced to spend xxx time doing so, our argument says that's completely detrimental to sensible design.

There will undoubtably be lvl 50 only areas later on, perhaps even a raise in the level cap. When this happens it will be even more difficult for certain players (who don't have the time to invest or those who are not particularly good at the game) losing out due to unwanted or badly specced builds.

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I don't mind which way this goes, but I can plainly see the benefits of such a system far outway the negatives and would give players an even playing field. The hardcore players (as in time spent, not HC mode) will have their shiney items and piles of gold and will still have something to show how much more effort they've put in.

win/win.