One thing I notice about the Female Templar...

[Mannak]

Just look at this picture




http://www.hellgateguru.com/artwork/images/artwork_081.jpg


If you look at her feet very closely, did you ever notice that she is wearing high heels? I don't know what the character designers were thinking but I would have to say that high heels are ridicolous to fight in (Women in reality actually hate wearing them or always take them off and walk bare footed in certain amounts of time due to it's uncomfortableness) and they would'nt even last 5 minutes running around in high heel boots....another thing that bothers me the most is that the Males are fully armored while females have a rather ridicolous looking "boob" armor above their chests and legs (which look like crack whore boots) while the rest is all a black jump suit thus showing their "sexy" bodies which is becoming a ridicolous cliched habit that most game industries nowadays have for money purposes....(designing female characters like fetish crack whores rather than real people like they do with the male characters....which is a example that sexism in modern society still exists today...yes I do know that "sex sells" but it's just a bluntent excuse after all)

and oh here's what a True Female Kinght should look like (plus I would probably design her like this below If I was in charge)

http://utopia.utexas.edu/project/portraits/images/202.jpg

discuss

[SgtPepper]

yeah... well... much as i love accuracy, i enjoy looking at HGL's templar much more than your female knight.

Sex Appeal over Accuracy Appeal!

[Delacroix]

SgtPepper
/Agreed
And, i think thats a useless thread, imo.

[Sol Invictus]

High heeled combat boots are sexy. Remember Batman & Robin with Alicia Silverstone?

[Mannak]

What the Fuck is wrong with you people? Women in reality don't look like crack whores that cames straight out of a fetish photography session in combat....oh man whats the world coming into....

[Sol Invictus]

I don't think anyone's saying that they do. But hey, art is art. I don't think anyone's expecting apparel accuracy in a game where Cabalists are covered with brands and tattoos.

[Mannak]

I don't think anyone's saying that they do. But hey, art is art. I don't think anyone's expecting apparel accuracy in a game where Cabalists are covered with brands and tattoos.


Heh, The Cabalist Female might be appealed to a sado masochist

but I still think this whole "sex appeal" that is currently plagueing the game industry is becoming a ridicolous issue....Ever since that overhyped bullshit Tomb Raider, female characters in computer games started to become cookie cutter sex symbol Lara Croft clone whores rather than real people....

and no, I wouldn't call the Female Templer or Cabalist "Art" I call it a generic cliche.

[northrop]

I think this is just a render from Blur.
Our female characters don't appear to have high heels in-game.
Quick Facts FTW.

[Delacroix]

but I still think this whole "accuracy" that is currently plagueing the game industry is becoming a ridicolous issue....Ever since that overhyped bullshit Tomb Raider, female characters in computer games started to become cookie cutter sex symbol Lara Croft clone whores rather than real people....
Dont forget Metroid´s Samus Aran without the suit.
Well. i like when they are sexy. :)

[Zeremi]

Its just wallpaper or whatever... They want it to look good, big deal?

[SgtPepper]

Umm... ever consider that the vast majority of game players are guys? I mean its got to be more than a 5-1 ratio. Guys, or at least the majority of us, love to see sexy women.

And out of curiousity, have you ever seen a crack whore? Trust me they aren't half as hot, or classy as our templar. I'd say she's more of a Wallstreet bussinessman's prostitute.

[kIllEr_pOptArT]

Exactly Sgt. Pepper.

Also you probably want to fix your ratio. It's more like 3 guys 1 girl these days.

[ForeStorm]

Ouch.

[kIllEr_pOptArT]

ouch?

[Mannak]

Umm... ever consider that the vast majority of game players are guys? I mean its got to be more than a 5-1 ratio. Guys, or at least the majority of us, love to see sexy women.


Well, I'm male but that doesn't mean that I like sexyness. I prefier Accuracy when it comes to character design in games (I hope skin modding is possible in Hellgate so someone with the skinning skills can do a fully armored non-sexy female Templar...since I suck at modding myself)

[kIllEr_pOptArT]

Well either your gay, which I don't mind(i've got 2 gay cousins... so whatever) or your attracted to different things. But regardless, it's been proven by years and years of advertisement that sex does sell.

[Mannak]

I'm not gay, I'm just a single lone person who has a totally different opinion on life.

[OnyxAbyss]

I definetly prefer the "Sexy" look of female characters. They could always implement the way SWG does character creation. You can make your character look basically however you want, adjusting wieght, hight, bust size and everthing.

[Blackfish]

I gotta say, the high heels ARE a bit absurd. I agree with that. The massively unarmored midriff is also kind of silly, but hey, I'm willing to accept that because yes, it's hot.

Mannak, I think your opinion would be a lot more respectable if each description of female video game characters didn't involve the phrase "crack whore." I can't really think of any game characters that look like whores, let alone drug-ridden ones. Your point is that they're unrealistic? True. So are the men. It's a bit less fan-service-y than with the females, but the majority of video game protagonists (look to supporting characters if you want diverse body types) are IDEALIZED. That's a big part of the appeal, whether you're playing a minimally armored warrior woman or a tall, muscular barbarian who can rip people's arms off with his bare hands.

I agree that it's kind of absurd and yeah, well, it might be kind of in questionable taste. My only real answer is "yay sexy!" and that I, along with most people, I think, can enjoy the aesthetics of idealized game characters without being dissatisfied or disrespectful to real-life people.

[Eternalchaos]

THat's just a render as said above. In the actual game they don't have high heels but its more of a heeled boot which is pretty common if you think about it.

0.o i can't see a female templar running around in high heels like that effectivly. and x.x "crack whore" is a bit over doing it with a description

One thing that attracks people to characters in RPG's is the fact they are all hot ROFL. look at GW and WoW characters.. they are all perfectly ripped and shapped . It would be nice if the character editor was alot like those EA sport game editors where you could make weird mutants and stuff ^_^ who knows.. FSS said it would be a very highlyd etailed character editor. Maybe they will include some ulgy characters but damn.. I want to make a female templar that is super hot because if i gotta look at my character for the thousands of hours i put into HG:L... It either be something hillarious or damn hot ^_^

[Mannak]

I heared that someone said that we can customized our own characters, Is it possible to get the Female Templers midrif/arms completely AND fully armored (like the Joan of Arc pic that I have posted)? Lets put it this way, if I was a Demon if and a Female Templar came after me wearing that absured armor... I'm going for the "weak spot" and stab or slice off her midriff....

[SgtPepper]

Games take everything to the extreme. Thats half the fun. I guaruntee you won't complain when you actually play the game.

[marktastic]

You are going for realism in a game about a hell gate opening up in future london letting loose thousands of demons which practially wipes out a large majority of the population and which the survivors choose to fight back with weapons cross-bred from the middle ages and science fiction? This might not be your game...

[Blackfish]

Hehe, touche!

As one of my friends said when rolling his female Night Elf WoW character, "If I'm going to stare at one ass for 60 levels, it's gotta be a nice one."

[Mannak]

You are going for realism in a game about a hell gate opening up in future london letting loose thousands of demons which practially wipes out a large majority of the population and which the survivors choose to fight back with weapons cross-bred from the middle ages and science fiction? This might not be your game...


Actually, I am one of those people who would call the Supernatural "realism" because shit like Vampires, Werewolves, Sorcerers/Mages, Demons, Faeries, Wraiths, ect are actually a reality....and don't get me started on asking why because we'll end up argueing about this crap for hours.....

[marktastic]

Ok then... how about this:

Why bother having male and female templar counterparts if they will look EXACTLY THE SAME. If you want, you could make a skinnier male templar and just give him a female name, and let everyone else have their sexy female templars.

I think Blackfish made a good point about idealized characters when he says "That's a big part of the appeal, whether you're playing a minimally armored warrior woman or a tall, muscular barbarian who can rip people's arms off with his bare hands."

I have no problems admitting that I would like my character (male or female) to look sexier than I am (but if I was gonna be a female, she'd have to look way sexier that I am).

Either way, in the end this becomes a pointless thread.

[pdvinenz]

Just look at this picture




http://www.hellgateguru.com/artwork/images/artwork_081.jpg


If you look at her feet very closely, did you ever notice that she is wearing high heels? I don't know what the character designers were thinking but I would have to say that high heels are ridicolous to fight in (Women in reality actually hate wearing them or always take them off and walk bare footed in certain amounts of time due to it's uncomfortableness) and they would'nt even last 5 minutes running around in high heel boots....another thing that bothers me the most is that the Males are fully armored while females have a rather ridicolous looking "boob" armor above their chests and legs (which look like crack whore boots) while the rest is all a black jump suit thus showing their "sexy" bodies which is becoming a ridicolous cliched habit that most game industries nowadays have for money purposes....(designing female characters like fetish crack whores rather than real people like they do with the male characters....which is a example that sexism in modern society still exists today...yes I do know that "sex sells" but it's just a bluntent excuse after all)

and oh here's what a True Female Kinght should look like (plus I would probably design her like this below If I was in charge)

http://utopia.utexas.edu/project/portraits/images/202.jpg

discuss

As much as I love naked women I have to agree completely with Mannak on this subject. High heels? WTF? Women barely walk in them and people somehow accept that they can even run or do ridiculous acrobatic manuevers?

I agree about the armor and and the over-all whore in a tin can thinking. I mean just stip off the jump suit and turn the metal into latex.... bam you got yourself a crack-whore.

Seriously developers take up a mature stance on this issue, not only because its retarded, because it also offends women. While games cater to a majority of males I think women would appreciate it more if it was not so because they have been fighting to get women eqaul status in the media world, and the gaming world should not be any different. Imagine if all black people were slaves in every single game made, cept this is applying it to a whole gender. I guess it's a business model though... tons of sex-starved 25 year old virgins drool over this shit.

I'm not some femenist nazi, so I will make a joke to even it out.

Q: Why did the woman get hit by the car?

A: Who cares, what was the car doing in the kitchen?

There that equalizes my femenistic reply :p

[Mannak]

Ok then... how about this:

Why bother having male and female templar counterparts if they will look EXACTLY THE SAME. If you want, you could make a skinnier male templar and just give him a female name, and let everyone else have their sexy female templars.

I actually want to play as a Female Templar....without the sexyness if it's possible....

[Mannak]

As much as I love naked women I have to agree completely with Mannak on this subject. High heels? WTF? Women barely walk in them and people somehow accept that they can even run or do ridiculous acrobatic manuevers?

I agree about the armor and and the over-all whore in a tin can thinking. I mean just stip off the jump suit and turn the metal into latex.... bam you got yourself a crack-whore.

Seriously developers take up a mature stance on this issue, not only because its retarded, because it also offends women. While games cater to a majority of males I think women would appreciate it more if it was not so because they have been fighting to get women eqaul status in the media world, and the gaming world should not be any different. Imagine if all black people were slaves in every single game made, cept this is applying it to a whole gender. I guess it's a business model though... tons of sex-starved 25 year old virgins drool over this shit.

I'm not some femenist nazi, so I will make a joke to even it out.

Q: Why did the woman get hit by the car?

A: Who cares, what was the car doing in the kitchen?

There that equalizes my femenistic reply :p


FINALLY at last someone here agrees with me...It seems that I'm not alone here now and infact I'm quite the same way aswell when it comes to looking at (natural) nude women (I'm actually 18 years old BTW)

[pdvinenz]

FINALLY at last someone here agrees with me...It seems that I'm not alone here now (I'm actually 18 years old BTW)

Me 2 :D

If you think about it further... hmm... I think anime influence has a lot to do with this. No offence to those who like it but I think anime is something that needs to fade out from gaming... seriously usually its over the top with anorexic looking characters swinging swords the size of buses but the weigh of a feather. They never have bad hair days and so on, I used to kinda like it but seriously people need to grow up.

Edit: Plus I've seen a woman try to run in high heels... no matter how sorry you feel for them you just can't help but laugh. If HGL chicks sport high heels and run at break neck spead the way a person in reality would run with those shoes I would laugh my ass off so much... prolly to the extent of not buying it because it becomes too comical.

[marktastic]

I actually want to play as a Female Templar....without the sexyness if it's possible....

Thats what I'm saying. The pic you showed had a female inside of standard male armor. If you had a fully suited female and male standing next to each other, how could you tell the difference? You just call one Joan, and one Bob. So like I said earlier, just build a male character and give it a female name. How could you tell?

[SgtPepper]

This game has NOTHING to do with anime...

I mean, are you kidding me?

Does this look ANYTHING whatsoever like anime? No.

If you want to blame anything blame the entire Pop Culture.

Anime does not influence this at all.

[pdvinenz]

Thats what I'm saying. The pic you showed had a female inside of standard male armor. If you had a fully suited female and male standing next to each other, how could you tell the difference? You just call one Joan, and one Bob. So like I said earlier, just build a male character and give it a female name. How could you tell?

Um if you didn't notice, women have breasts, and the female templar is significantly smaller than the male counterpart. How about having full armor in the female templar, except the design on it would be different. Like the differences you see in armor on females and males in Oblivion.

I remember my friend playing KotOR II and when he got the "dancer's" outfit he would equip it and play the whole game wearing that...

[pdvinenz]

This game has NOTHING to do with anime...

I mean, are you kidding me?

Does this look ANYTHING whatsoever like anime? No.

If you want to blame anything blame the entire Pop Culture.

Anime does not influence this at all.

Where else do you find your above average sexy female heroine running around in high heels and never having a bad hair day. Not even Michael Jackson beats that... though Sailor Moon comes in mind...

BTW, I said INFLUENCED...

[Blackfish]

Where else do you find your above average sexy female heroine running around in high heels and never having a bad hair day. Not even Michael Jackson beats that... though Sailor Moon comes in mind...

BTW, I said INFLUENCED...
First, let's drop the high heels issue, absurd though it is; that's been resolved and as far as we know won't be appearing in the game, just the trailer.

Umm...I'm going to have to go with SgtPepper on this; I fail to see how anime is influencing this game or the general appearance of female game characters. Ignoring Japanese games (which, shockingly, do often have anime influences), some of the aspects of anime and games might be the same (like I said, idealized bodies), but have you watched any movies lately? Action movies especially, but American movies in general - they're filled with your above average sexy female heroines running around in high heels and never having a bad hair day. And even if they're not killing things constantly, people (male and female) in movies and TV shows and games are always pretty darn perfectly made up, proportioned, etc. Have you seen Lost? After 40+ days on a desert island, you'd think there'd be bad hairdo's or something, but nope. Don't try to peg this on anime, we've had the same issues with idealization of media figures in this country for waaay longer than anime has even existed.

I can see the point you guys are trying to make, and while I can agree on some level you obviously also think it's more of a problem than I or a lot of people here do (which is fine), but don't try to explain it with anime.

Also, great slam on Michael Jackson, hehe.

[marktastic]

Um if you didn't notice, women have breasts, and the female templar is significantly smaller than the male counterpart. How about having full armor in the female templar, except the design on it would be different. Like the differences you see in armor on females and males in Oblivion.

I remember my friend playing KotOR II and when he got the "dancer's" outfit he would equip it and play the whole game wearing that...

Here, let me try to show you what I mean in this crude demonstration:

This is the pic he showed us earlier. I think he said it was Joan of Arc, that French chick from the Bill & Ted movie (kidding! :p ).
http://msu.edu/~santia28/joan.jpg


annnnd BOOM now its a guy.
http://msu.edu/~santia28/joanguy.jpg


lol any questions? btw no offense meant, i'm just trying to show a point.

[SgtPepper]

HAHAHA! Sweet man, sweet!

[pdvinenz]

Even if that person (Joan pics) was without armor I would have a hard time discerning her from a 14 year old guy these days. So what's your point? That all women look like 14 year old boys and you can't tell the difference?

[SgtPepper]

i think his point is quite obvious. A armored, helmeted man of a petite build look exactly the same as an armored woman of a similar build. So why not just play that. There will be extensive character customization.

[Inferi]

I agree with Eternal when he said "One thing that attracks people to characters in RPG's is the fact they are all hot ROFL. look at GW and WoW characters.. they are all perfectly ripped and shapped ." And on a side note when he said this: "It would be nice if the character editor was alot like those EA sport game editors where you could make weird mutants and stuff ^_^ who knows.. FSS said it would be a very highlyd etailed character editor." I suddenly had the urge to make an extremely ovewieght templar. >.<

[SgtPepper]

well, they have claimed to have a great char editor.

[Inferi]

Lol I seriously dont think I will do that, though, if not just to do have a charry like that. I mean, I've done it before in other games, like dress the hero of Fable in a dress, but it'd probly just be a temp charachter.

[AfroCelt]

Aww...I almost always make an overwieght melee character in games! I like the lineman/prop physique....big and a bit burly.

Of course, I'M that build, so it makes a bit of sense :P

The best is to make a HUGE caster....just dont play it in PvP...much easier to click on.

[Killmojo]

The character editor will allow you to change the weight and build of your character. In the quick facts it states that there are no heels in the game. While I understand the point, it will not be an issue in HG:L.

[Krazy Kaution]

I dont understand people complaining about the women wearing somewhat lighter armour. If a woman is able to support the male sized templar armour, would she even be good looking? You have to appeal to some perverted players and making the females wear some sexy looking armour tends to be the west way. There definitely is a reason the female Night Elves in World of Warcraft are slutty, so people would play them. They want to make the game something fun to play and good to look at. You wouldn't want to see 210lbs women with bulging muscles like body builders and chiseled jaws like the Hulk lol. Noone would play them :D

[Blackfish]

Unless it was Briennce of Tarth, from the Song of Ice and Fire books by George RR Martin. She's basically hulking, pretty ugly, ripped and also one of the coolest characters in the book! If you haven't read them (start with A Game of Thrones) and you like gritty fantasy with super characters, do it! Good stuff, and more diverse female characters than you'll usually get. I digress, but I must spread the good word of those books! :o

[pdvinenz]

Just even wondering why dudes even eant to play as a female when you got the choice? I mean if Diablo II gave me the choice of having a male Sorceress I would've gone with that, but instead it was female so I was forced to play it.

[Klael]

What's wrong with a guy playing a female character? Unless you're not confident about your own sexuality. Not everyone think that the character they play is an extension of themself. You are just directing a character to perform specific actions. Different strokes for different folks.

[pdvinenz]

What's wrong with a guy playing a female character? Unless you're not confident about your own sexuality. Not everyone think that the character they play is an extension of themself. You are just directing a character to perform specific actions. Different strokes for different folks.

I can play a female char, but it doesn't make sense to me as a guy to play one if I have the choice of playing a male char. Maybe it's just me but I got tired of all the guys stripping their Night Elf chars to undies and dancing everywhere...

[SgtPepper]

Heres a funny fact: I was looking through videos at break.com and you know what i found?

A video of a kid getting caught by his friends jerking his gerkin to world of warcraft.

Now what does that tell you?

[Mannak]

Heres a funny fact: I was looking through videos at break.com and you know what i found?

A video of a kid getting caught by his friends jerking his gerkin to world of warcraft.

Now what does that tell you?


It also tells me what the True purpose of these games are really made for.....The Same thing that keeps our little world overpopulated.

BTW I found some models of (True) Female Knights

http://www.gamasutraexchange.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/176996
http://www.gamasutraexchange.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/123872

[marktastic]

Here are some more pics of what true female knights would look like too...

http://static.flickr.com/21/31860182_49074cfce3.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/22/31859949_1b0e577572.jpg

:rolleyes:

[pdvinenz]

Why do guys keep thinking what I ask for is for the real lookin knights and so on.

All I ask is keep the fantasy design and so on, just make it LOGICAL, not something which makes me think on how the character even manages to move...

I mean it's possible to make a full body armor for female chars and make it look sexy... converting latex crack whore suits into plate is not cool. You see half-naked female chars running around and they stiill have as much and more armor than male chars covered in plate from head to toe...

[marktastic]

Do you need to be spoon fed? Go Look at what Mannak has been saying, and then go look at what I said. Did I say anything to you at all? I don't think I did and I'm sorry you thought I was talking about you.

[Blackfish]

Maybe it's just me but I got tired of all the guys stripping their Night Elf chars to undies and dancing everywhere...
Heh, total agreement. I can accept the idealization because it's present in so much and because anyone with a decent grasp of reality can separate that from the people he or she will expect to meet in real life, but the stripping/dancing got really old and really dumb, not to mention disrespectful.

It also tells me what the True purpose of these games are really made for.....The Same thing that keeps our little world overpopulated.

BTW I found some models of (True) Female Knights

http://www.gamasutraexchange.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/176996
http://www.gamasutraexchange.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/123872
Mannak, what the frack are you talking about? The "True purpose of these games"? Games are related to the uneven use of contraceptives in developing countries? Games are related to societal norms that glorify large families? Games encourage countries to develop in such a way that it decreases the death rate while failing to decrease the birth rate? If you're implying that games make people horny and then they masturbate, welcome to human sexuality! People are going to be horny and relieve themselves however possible (often resulting in babies, yes, but last I checked no one got pregnant from wacking off to WoW), but that's the biological imperative that keeps a species going, and gaming has got jack to do with that.

Also, I hope that those links to the female knight models were facetious, because did you look on the side bar of the second link? Yeah. The naked, fully manipulable 3d models of women? Yeah, those. If you're going to object to the objectification and oversexualization of women, I'd look around before you link to something like that.

Speaking of links: This is a crack whore. (http://www.whatsupwiththat.net/photos/news/clbad.jpg) This is a female Templar. (http://www.hellgateguru.com/artwork/images/artwork_081.jpg) Discuss.

[Mannak]

Speaking of links: This is a crack whore. (http://www.whatsupwiththat.net/photos/news/clbad.jpg) This is a female Templar. (http://www.hellgateguru.com/artwork/images/artwork_081.jpg) Discuss.


Actually I would more likely to be compaire to this

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/Mannak/DOOM0022.png

[BDStyle]

The funny thing is this to me.

More men get wound up by the percieved sexism in games than women do by far. I knwo quite a few women that game.. including my girlfiend. Not one of them care at all as they know its just using sex to sell to men. Women use it all the time against us men so I suppose they have a base understanding ;)

From a personal view I prefer women to look realistc to a degree, and being unatractive wouldn't annoy me but I do prefer the ladies modeled in game to look good. I guess I'm on the fence on this one as tbh it doesn't bother me either way, i'll still play the game because thats why i'm here.

*edit.. JEEEEZ typo attack, i'm going to keep them for prosperity :D

[Shayera]

This thread is sort of funny :D

Anyway, i only hope that I don't have to run in such shoes/boots in RL ;)

[rubeo990]

The "skimpy" armor isn't bad, and I have no idea why it bothers you mannak. The female templar as it (should I call the character she?) is is good quality, and looks nice. Anyway, in video games the males almost always wear larger and more covering armor, and the females wear skimpier armor. It's a tradition of the trade ;)

[SgtPepper]

The funny thing is this to me.

More men get wound up by the percieved sexism in games than women do by far. I knwo quite a few women that game.. including my girlfiend. Not one of them care at all as they know its just using sex to sell to men. Women use it all the time against us men so I suppose they have a base understanding ;)

From a personal view I prefer women to look realistc to a degree, and being unatractive wouldn't annoy me but I do prefer the ladies modeled in game to look good. I guess I'm on the fence on this one as tbh it doesn't bother me either way, i'll still play the game because thats why i'm here.

*edit.. JEEEEZ typo attack, i'm going to keep them for prosperity :D

Lordy Lordy, i think this should end the argument...

[Blackfish]

I really hope so. Well-said, BDStyle!

[Mannak]

The "skimpy" armor isn't bad, and I have no idea why it bothers you mannak. The female templar as it (should I call the character she?) is is good quality, and looks nice. Anyway, in video games the males almost always wear larger and more covering armor, and the females wear skimpier armor. It's a tradition of the trade ;)


One of the reasons that skimpy armor on Females bothers me is because that I believe that Females should be no different than any male because THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS......

Most of the people here at seems are sex hungy nympthomanics anyway who look at women as sex toys and ignoring anything remotely human about them......All I have to say is grow up and get a life....There's already billions of people on this rock of ours.

[LizardWhoSkiis]

I may just be a sex sells thing, but think of it another way: It's art.
Someone has to draw it, and most artist prefer to draw something that looks nice. Even artist who intentionally use a more crude looking style still try to make it look appealing. If you understand what I mean, I'll even say that people who intentionally draw something ugly try to make it appealing.

You don't hit a few bad strings in your music recording just because it's more realistic to have imperfections.
You don't dumb down the hero of your book because, realistically, he would've got knocked in the head a few times during his training.
It's just not the way art works.

Sometime it's pushed a little far, such as the female night elf's idle bouncing, and female armor in general forming directly around the breast rather than fitting a proper contour, but the models? That's just someone trying to make a decent looking piece (though personally I find the 90 degree arc between the back and the shoulders on the female night elf model a little distrubing).
It's not exactly impressive to be famed for drawing grotesque females that people can't look at for more than a minute without throwing up. Unless you're sick like that.

I prefer my chicks to look good, just like I prefer my dudes to look bad-ass, it's just better to look at.
Typically these days if I've a choice I'll stick to male characters. In some cases though I don't mind using the female model (like in GW for instance, I don't like the looks of the male monk, so I make a female.)

[Mannak]

Women should look just as badass & normal, like their male counterparts and not just "looking good"....

[SgtPepper]

Umm... Badass isnt normal...

The males look far from normal as well...

[Mannak]

Sorry about the lack of consideration (and the mistake) on the badass statement, but I rather have my characters look like normal human beings rather than generic sterotypes.....

[OnyxAbyss]

I think both the female and the male templar look pretty damn badass. If the female templar was fully armoured in the cinematic video, she wouldn't be able to be as agile, or just at all really from the weight of the armour. And if she was fully armoured, it would be hard to tell the different between the male and female when they are both wearing their helmets.

[SgtPepper]

can we all just let this drop... its getting kind of obnoxious

[LizardWhoSkiis]

Women should look just as badass & normal, like their male counterparts and not just "looking good"....
What would you say makes a male look good? I don't check them out often, so I typically associate it with looking badass. Oh sure, they can have hot faces and fit bodies, and I suppose back in the days of tight pants you could admire their ass, for whatever that's worth. But put a helmet on them and any dude with a fit body and good posture will be "looking good"

Same goes for females. The look better when they're fit, difference being a fit female can be either (fairly) busty or small chested. Why the size then? Because it looks more womanly, more like we picture a good looking female, it's more appealing to the eye--any eye.

You're complaining about not looking normal? You're not normal. The normal people are helpless, they can't do anything about Hell. They can't handle the adventuring, the fighting. They don't have the education, strength, and endurance to last outside their casual lifestyle. You are a prime example of the human race. Least you can do is look like it.

[Mannak]

Well, people are just people, some might be cowards or vice versa.....

[Blackfish]

Guys, listen to SgtPepper and Lizard - they're being very reasonable and we'll be talking ourselves in circles soon, if not already.

[BDStyle]

You know what, i think some of you like to disagree to pass the time.

I have to ask why some of you just continually go around in circles trying to make someone you don't know at all look at an oppinion from your own viewpoint. Its not worth your time lads as all you'll get is some notion of superiority if you finally get someone to bow down. The likeliest outcome however is a never ending argument that in the end will just get locked or two people fall out.

Here are the two sides of the argument.

1) AGAINST: The game is sexist and derogatory to women, they were impracticle clothing that just serves as a sex symbol over any real application. This is unwanted and imature game design and should not be allowed. Lets just make all women wear plain cloths and useful armour.

2) FOR: The game is designed that way to appeal to the majority of the target market ie: teen, male gamers. Women don't care and mostly laugh at our pixelated sex icons. The energy expended arguing this point is wasted, its going to happen anyway so why not chill out?

Both are equally defensible points and both can be argued at length as being the correct view.

You have all made your views known and you are all now just arguing for arguments sake (to the protagonists btw).

My answer..... chill out... grab a beer (or whatever your tipple is).... dream about good times on the horizon with a game we are all here to enjoy whatever it looks like. Who cares about model design... its diablo 3 lads :D

p.s. I apologise for such a long post :)

[LizardWhoSkiis]

Yes, I do debate to pass the time. I've found it far more interesting and valuable than throwing up on the bathroom floor or dulling my brain on the flat surface of my computer desk. Quite frankly, I fail to see to the problem.

We have differing opinions, and so to understand eachother we eloborate on our own and question theirs. Of course the ultimate goal is to persuade them to see things our way and come into agreement with us, because let's face it, if the world agrees with you, you're right. If you're right, people follow you because they have faith in your ideas. With a following you can position yourself in power, establishing more of a following until eveutually you can pretty much take over the world. Sure, taking over the world may be morally wrong now, but if everyone follows you they'll put aside such an unecessary value.

But BDStyle, my arguement for the styilization of characters in question is not as you present it. In fact, it only relates to horny little boys as far as they are human and enjoy an appealing images as the rest of us do.
Perhaps my opinion is not new and it will flow into a circle run a thousand times, but so long as it still bears points worth consideration it can still be a stimulating and educational for everyone.

[rubeo990]

Lizard - Wowzers.

Since I have stated my two cents earlier, I'll just watch the verbose combat continue.

[BDStyle]

Yes, I do debate to pass the time. I've found it far more interesting and valuable than throwing up on the bathroom floor or dulling my brain on the flat surface of my computer desk. Quite frankly, I fail to see to the problem.

We have differing opinions, and so to understand eachother we eloborate on our own and question theirs. Of course the ultimate goal is to persuade them to see things our way and come into agreement with us, because let's face it, if the world agrees with you, you're right. If you're right, people follow you because they have faith in your ideas. With a following you can position yourself in power, establishing more of a following until eveutually you can pretty much take over the world. Sure, taking over the world may be morally wrong now, but if everyone follows you they'll put aside such an unecessary value.

But BDStyle, my arguement for the styilization of characters in question is not as you present it. In fact, it only relates to horny little boys as far as they are human and enjoy an appealing images as the rest of us do.
Perhaps my opinion is not new and it will flow into a circle run a thousand times, but so long as it still bears points worth consideration it can still be a stimulating and educational for everyone.

I must admit i did gloss over your views and for that I apologise. You do indeed bring up some view points that hadn't been mentioned and it did indeed add to the content of the discussion. After going over your previous two posts I must admit theirs nothing you say thats arguable, its a well formed oppinion and one I can certainly grasp. Like me you are somewhat on the fence (ie you understand either way) about it it seems and your not really stoking up any type of fires to fuel the flames :)

So now I must quote myself.

You have all made your views known and you are all now just arguing for arguments sake (to the protagonists btw).

What I should of said is....

Some of you have made your views known and you are now arguing for arguments sake (to the protagonists btw).

I was in error, again accept my apologies. I don't see you as a protagonist as you aren't stoking those fires.

Now... its nearly 6am here and i need some food :D

[Angrybeaver]

Since when have women ever worn practical footware. Just go out on a saturday night and watch em try and walk home after a few to many bottles of tart fuel and dancing all night its pretty funny until they beg for a piggy back home :(

[Azurewrath]

My first and probably last post on this thread.
Like some of you have said, it's and idealised view of women and men. I like looking at hot women and I'd like to see that in the game .. yes, that makes me a sick pervert who should be phlogging(is it correct ?) himself, but I'm afraid I'd like that too. The b00b armor may not be realistic, but it's a game, you can do whatever the hell you want and armor is nothing but the visual representation of a bonus to defense. If you were to delete all the armor textures but still give me the stats, I'd happily go naked the whole game (or boxers if I'm a guy).
The high-heeled part is stupid, I'll admit it. The b00b armor really isn't that stupid because if the girl has it then she should flaunt it. Besides, wouldn't it be uncomfortable to not have b00b space in the armor ? It would be like Romans with their fascia, the cloth wrapped around the torso to stop breasts from growing. The exposed abdomen is silly, but unavoidable if you want her to look good and feminine; maybe female templars have special magic protection for their tummies :D (or their wombs), women have many secrets, you can never be too sure.
Finally, leave it as it is, because the producers will do whatever they bloody hell want, and no amount of arguing among us will change that. Start discussing some other topics.

Now, for some questions and observation:
- great gag, angrybeaver
- the "feminist" joke pdvinenz told us on page two was awesome :D
- what's a crack whore ? I know what a whore is, but crack ...
- what's a midriff ?
- can anyone post a link to that article or movie about the guy who was jerking off to WoW ?
- has anyone ever heard of World of Porncraft? That's an argument buster right there.
- go sleep for a bit, you'll be less prone to fighting when you get up.

[Blackfish]

Now, for some questions and observation:
- great gag, angrybeaver
- the "feminist" joke pdvinenz told us on page two was awesome :D
- what's a crack whore ? I know what a whore is, but crack ...
- what's a midriff ?
- can anyone post a link to that article or movie about the guy who was jerking off to WoW ?
- has anyone ever heard of World of Porncraft? That's an argument buster right there.
- go sleep for a bit, you'll be less prone to fighting when you get up.
Azurewrath, I'd quote your entire post QTF, but I don't want to swarm the forum or accentuate the fact that I am, in fact, somewhat hypocritical for agreeing with you, Lizard, and the others trying to bring a reasonable end to this thread. I did a good bit of antagonism with the various groups re: feminism and the various poorly stated arguments that have been made over the last day and half (is that really all it is?). A LOT has been said about this in some manner or another, and I realize I've been more verbose than some; I've tried to point out some of the flaws in pdvinenz' and mannak's argument, possibly to little effect when I should have been focusing on declaring what I think in a manner more like Lizard's, BDStyle's, or Beaver and Wrath's.

Beaver QFT for the simple phrase "tart fuel" and possibly providing us with a new mod type, pdvinenz for the hilarious not-at-all-feminist-joke a while back, silly silly WoW players and what happens in the unfortunately circumstances when they get caught with their pants down. Thanks to folks for keeping their heads straight when I got stuck on the details and minor points, and for presenting both sides of the argument in a very balanced manner when I was a too out of it or antagonistic to do so!

[Krazy Kaution]

It's simple, the hells were taken out of the game cuz its a dumb idea to run around in heels (but they weren't stilettos so remember that, and i know plenty of girls who will run in flat heels). Feminism shouldn't have ever been brought up lol. The initial topic wasn't sexist hehe. The women in Hellgate: London aren't discriminated against. Like i said a couples pages ago or so, what kind of female would be appealing to the players, and would that female really be able to support amazingly large armor sets that the male templars are wearing? Certainly there is a reason the armor would be lower even in a realistic setting. For one, they aren't as muscular as the male characters so probably wouldn't be as strong. And i think this thread lost it's topic a while back ahahah so i'll give up talking about it.

[Mannak]

Is there any way when the game is released that I can reedit the Templar Female through the character customization that was annouced a while ago? Like getting rid of the boob armor and covering up her entire Abdomen with plate armor? Same thing goes for the Cabalist female to have her to put on a plain shirt, jeans, and a Jacket covering up her whole Abdomen? I just want my female characters to look real and non "sexy" as possible.....lets just drop the arguement for now.....

[pdvinenz]

If it's going to be anything like WoW expect a whole bunch of naked female Templars running around dancing... or slutty looking armor to be worth a lot of money.

Btw I have no problem with the boob armor either, just as long it's not way over done with the size...

[thanatopsis]

to be honest it would be nice to see a major game where the women are treated as if they had to be super sexy to be noticed.

[rubeo990]

Mannak, I kind of hope you get what you want, because I think it would look nice if there was a little more armor around the abdomen on the women, though not a full plate like the males. It would be amazing if there were 2 or 3 different armor styles for each male or female of each class, though that would tack on much more time to create the game.

Let's just hope for all our sakes the custimizability of characters is as good or better than FSS says it is.

[BDStyle]

to be honest it would be nice to see a major game where the women are treated as if they had to be super sexy to be noticed.

Sorry am I reading this correctly, you say that major games aren't making women super 'sexy' to be noticed at presant.....

I'm guessing you meant it the other way around?

[thanatopsis]

Sorry am I reading this correctly, you say that major games aren't making women super 'sexy' to be noticed at presant.....

I'm guessing you meant it the other way around?


im saying that it seems that most video games make the female characters super sexy because they can and not for any other reason.

[pdvinenz]

im saying that it seems that most video games make the female characters super sexy because they can and not for any other reason.

No they do it because there are a 234528347928346928347 infinite amount of horny teenage guys wihtout GFs. Why you think Everquest was popular... it was all because of that half naked chick on the retail boxes.

[thanatopsis]

still doesnt mean its a good reason

[LizardWhoSkiis]

No they do it because there are a 234528347928346928347 infinite amount of horny teenage guys wihtout GFs. Why you think Everquest was popular... it was all because of that half naked chick on the retail boxes.
This is were the looping arguements will come in, so let me attempt to divert it a bit with another consideration.

It's no secret a woman's attractiveness is used to advance sales of products, but it's just a harmless business practice having no more effect than the perfectly prepared meal coving food labels. When you go to the grocery market and pick up those cheap frozen dinners, do you expect to get a full course meal looking as if it were prepared by last week's Iron Chef? No. You buy it anyways. No more do you expect to get laid when you see that hot chick on your game, a magazine, or even Axe deodorant commercials. Do you buy it? Of course.

Businesses know this, they've spend a lot of money researching the effect of attractive images, or just taken another business' word on it. Consumers, men and women alike, are more inclined to buy a product with an attractive image adorning it, even if is is a scantly clad chick. Do you suppose the ladies purchasing such a product are looking forward to a few minutes alone in the bedroom with the picture? Most of them will throw the cover out when they use it. They still bought it for the image, and that's what matters to the business.

We like our shinies shiny and our pretties pretty. It's not not about making with the sex. It's how people like it, plain and simple.

[Mannak]

I think it would look nice if there was a little more armor around the abdomen on the women, though not a full plate like the males


I rather have Females wearing alsome full plate armor (engraved Dragons, ect) nothing different than their male counterparts....


Lets just see how the final product goes with character customization...If it doesn't work then
I hope that character modding is possible...

[AllHazzardi]

Well, I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet by anyone, as being on dialup makes going through all the pages of a topic absolute hell, but....

Who's to say she's not just wearing a "breastplate" and "boots" in that render? As far as I have heard, character appearances change depending on what you equip to them, so a female templar wearing only "Breastplate" and "Boots" might look like that. But a female templar wearing "Platemail Cuirass" "Platemail Greaves" "Platemail Pauldron" etc etc... probably would look a BIT different....

[Klael]

I rather have Females wearing alsome full plate armor (engraved Dragons, ect) nothing different than their male counterparts....


Lets just see how the final product goes with character customization...If it doesn't work then
I hope that character modding is possible...
HGL ATM doesn't support modding because of the online aspect. Granted, you can do whatever you want with the single player but the only 'mods' that is possible is only from FSS.

[Mannak]

Well I only play Single Player anyways

[thanatopsis]

lizard who skiis just because it sells doesnt make it right and doesnt mean your not objectifying the woman still.

[LizardWhoSkiis]

lizard who skiis just because it sells doesnt make it right and doesnt mean your not objectifying the woman still.
But it's not objectifying women. It's objectifying a image, which is an object. Do you have so little faith in mankind that upon seeing such an image they'd all be thinking "omg hawtz id sex0rz it al b00bies r b3l0ng ot me"?
Sorry, despite how it may appear, people are smarter than that. It takes more than a few good pictures to objectify someone.

[Blackfish]

Especially when those pictures are of digital characters. More importantly, it's fairly difficult to say it's an objectification when the image you're talking about is an ass-kicking protagonist who saves the world and is primarily a heroine, not a sex object. Objectification is all about taking power, agency, and importance away from someone, whereas the Templars (both genders) have all of these qualities. It might be in mildly questionable taste, but I don't think it's objectification.

[thanatopsis]

But it's not objectifying women. It's objectifying a image, which is an object. Do you have so little faith in mankind that upon seeing such an image they'd all be thinking "omg hawtz id sex0rz it al b00bies r b3l0ng ot me"?
Sorry, despite how it may appear, people are smarter than that. It takes more than a few good pictures to objectify someone.


when tv networks to bost ratings do shows like hotest videogame vixen it shows that your statment might not be as true as you think. and why dont you work on reality tv shows and then say you have faith in humanity as a whole.

[LizardWhoSkiis]

when tv networks to bost ratings do shows like hotest videogame vixen it shows that your statment might not be as true as you think. and why dont you work on reality tv shows and then say you have faith in humanity as a whole.
Trust me on at least one thing here: You're not more skeptical of the general state of human intelligence than I am--I'm an atheist Student SysAdmin with a lot of time spent watching people and not a value in mind when it comes to pointing out how bad MTV is. =)

The televsion media is a whole different story though. The media is pop culture, they'll play anyhing they can get their hands on if it gets them ratings. Games aren't made to appear on a show like hottest videogame vixens, that's simply a result of making something appealing.
But, I'll keep to my idea. That's still not objectifying women. It's still just an image being played up a bit more. Exploiting? Sure. But its no small number of women who do that on the street themselves, just because they prefer to look good.

[SgtPepper]

Puting a women on a pedistal is not "objectifiying" her. It is praising her. Well really its all dependant on you

[Brother Laz]

I'd make a distinction between good looking female characters and porn stars. If they uh... make concessions to the protective value of a female character's armor, and it makes the character look better, I'm all for it. If it is to make the character look like a slut, nope.

http://my.samara.ru/builder/photos/diablo/2832/4428.jpeg

...vs...

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9797/logo2bp1.jpg

The difference should be obvious...

[LizardWhoSkiis]

I'd make a distinction between good looking female characters and porn stars. If they uh... make concessions to the protective value of a female character's armor, and it makes the character look better, I'm all for it. If it is to make the character look like a slut, nope.

http://my.samara.ru/builder/photos/diablo/2832/4428.jpeg

...vs...

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9797/logo2bp1.jpg

The difference should be obvious...
Disclaimer: This post works under the assumption the sorceress is not the "porn star", as it's my understanding where the Sorceress came from it wasn't always winter and heavy robes were a bit unnecessary. =)

Back to bashing art again, are we? In the pieces defence, I'd hardly call that a "slut". More suitable wear for a beach than hell? Yes. Something you'd hope to see on the street corner on a lonely night or otherwise something trying to get into your bed tonight? Not in the slightest.
What's that got to do with anything? Because it is something you'd expect to see at the beach (excluding the plate, which I might add is not the protection of choice for porn stars).
Now, maybe you've got something against beaches (and maybe you're uncomfortable with your body and are jealous of people who are comfortable with their own), but beachs are certainly a relaxed social atmosphere were people come to enjoy themselves. While you're chillin' with your mates/mate-ess what better way to spend the time than admiring the nice sites around you? Having people admire you. It's a social thing. When you make a claim in the social world you're trying to get people to notice you. Say what you will about why. Sure, I'll buy that it's our natural instinct to reproduce (in other words we do it to get laid), that's fine, right for all I know.
Point being: a beach is a great place to show a good look, namely because of beach wear (which isn't whore-wear, I'll add, again), so when you're trying to look good, why not wear a swimsuit? Only makes you a slut if sluttiness is just a natural state we're all pushing for anyways. If you've a problem with that, then we'll just let natural selection take care of you and we'll continue on our merry orgies. =)

[Krazy Kaution]

What the Fuck is wrong with you people? Women in reality don't look like crack whores that cames straight out of a fetish photography session in combat....oh man whats the world coming into....
If i wanted real world accuracy... I WOULD GO OUTSIDE. Bro, you really need to drop this, it's a fantasy game. You need to do a few things actually:

1) Go Outside
2) Find a Girl (no special requirements, just a vagina will do)
3) Get laid
4) Then contemplate how much of an idiot you were for arguing that a fantasy game had something in it that was UNREALISTIC.
5) Find the closest blunt object
6) hit yourself repeatedly until you go unconscious
7) Repeat 5-6 until you're unable to form a complete sentence in your own head
8) Have a wonderful life of still being retarded.

[Synyster]

Dude... its a game... chicks can run around in tiny shirts and short shorts while in the jungle and get shot, bit, and scraped all they want. but they dont get cuts. their skin is still smoothly pixelated and whatnot. just watch out for giant spike pits... those fuck you up. So I do believe it is perfectly conceivable for a girl to wear high heels in a game and live.

[jdizzle]

Wasn't he kidding?

I don't think anyone could complain about the female characters in hellgate london
Mannak, post a picture of what you are looking for to replace the female then we will give you our opinion

[Kaldurenik]

This topic is gold ;) *looks around*. By the way if it bother you so much dont play a female...

[BryanM]

Hah, necromancy.

What I always liked about Hellgate was the promo art had a lady who was a little fugly. And the male characters don't seem very "metrosexual" (most male avatars in GW/WoW), either.

As far as realism goes in how people actually look, this scores high amongst comparable games? y/n?

[penemue]

look all i have to say is, has anyone ever see the first few WoW wallpapers? Elf chick with almost nothing covering her tits... that is a fantasy mmo game didn't really see any complaints.

Guess what? this is a fantasy game (and sci-fi but w/e) same thing applies, also the guys in the game are made extra buff whats up with double standard?

[Mendax]

Ever since that overhyped bullshit Tomb Raider, female characters in computer games started to become cookie cutter sex symbol Lara Croft clone whores rather than real people....


Tombraider is really fun and is pretty much the best puzzle solving game ever. Don't bash just 'cause she's pretty at the same time. The movies were stupid though....

[Bells]

What the Fuck is wrong with you people? Women in reality don't look like crack whores that cames straight out of a fetish photography session in combat....oh man whats the world coming into....

Havent been to an american high school recently have you?

[alerith]

Tombraider is really fun and is pretty much the best puzzle solving game ever. Don't bash just 'cause she's pretty at the same time. The movies were stupid though....
OMG I can't wait for Tomb Raider Anniversary. Legends was fucking off the chain.
Havent been to an american high school recently have you?
lolol qfe.

[edujackass]

holy shit 2 topics about this? ... do you also want flagship to make the templars unmuscled?? want to have like templars with a belly and no six pack or annything and small shoulders? like normal ppl? now that would be cool! .... people will defenetly want to play shit like that... there are ppl who play becuz in a game they can be a kickass powerfull knight and just realy kill other ppl online, they dont play to be a normal guy/girl.. i realy dont see why u hate sexyness..

[GoBBLeS]

Just copied my post from the other thread to show that not all dudes disagree.


Why all this fuzz? I'm a dude. I love Boobies and a good cup size too, just to get that strait.

But i just think it looks stupid with giant tits (+big ass and paperthin waist )in games.
It just makes it look cheap, like a way to get all the teenagers to look at the box and say "holy damn TITS!!" and get sales like that.

Nobody's wanting total realism. Ofcouse ppl don't want an ugly char, but just something that makes sense!

Btw. most athletes like the chars must be, DON'T have big tits, and even if they do, they would use sports bra's which makes them quite flat and out of the way.

Male chars are buff.. of couse, they have to wear the damn armor and guns. And males actually have big muscles when fit, so they are made proper...

I don't know if it's such a big problem in HL:G though. AND you can actually adjust girth, which must mean the boobies.


I guess it's the same with the high heels, it doesn't make sense.. but i don't really mind it that much though...

[XaosII]

I think everyone here is wrong. She clearly has hooves and the armor conforms to that.

[Sulfuric]

I prefer Avalon's armor.

[GoBBLeS]

I prefer Avalon's armor.

I do too, but i still think it looks ridiculus. It looks like it says LOOOK the tits are in here, RIGHT here. heh.. it's just too flashy imo..

[Sulfuric]

I do too, but i still think it looks ridiculus. It looks like it says LOOOK the tits are in here, RIGHT here. heh.. it's just too flashy imo..

You can't flash if you don't have a shirt.

[Wargasm]

Yes, let's force the art department to scrap all that they have done and start all over. Good idea.

[Zindaras]

While I don't entirely agree with Manak on this, I'm also against the objectification of women in games.

I could ramble on about my own vehement but unauthoritative opinion on this topic, but I'd prefer to call in the experts.

I very much doubt that anyone who's read an issue or two of The Escapist Online (http://www.theescapistmagazine.com) can deny that it's one of the most important things on the internet that anybody who calls him or herself a gamer can read. As it so happens, The Escapist has devoted a few issues to the topic of women in games, and I'd like to link you guys to a few of the more pertinent articles.

First off, sex sells games. We all know that. Have you ever wondered why? Because it's wired into our brains. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/17/3) Warning--that's a longish article, and if you're not overly interested in the topic, the later links will make for better reading.

Since "sex sells games" is apparently the ultimate truth, we don't have any right or responsibility to make our voices heard as individuals and consumers, right? Wrong.

"...the sexist and dehumanizing portrayal of women in games is, ultimately, driven by demand. If serious change is going to come about in this area, we are going to need to make it happen, by insisting on games that are thick on substance and thin on sexism. This is particularly true because, as PC gamers, we hold two key advantages: One, we tend to fall into a more mature demographic of gamers that - in theory, anyway - transcends the testosterone-driven daydreams of young teenagers."
--M. Junaid Alam, What is a Galaxy Without Stars? (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/17/21)
(In my opinion, this is the most important link (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/17/21)you could follow here. Plus, it even has b00bs (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/17/21)in it.)

It is easy to assume that sexism is "okay" because games are purportedly made for guys anyway. However, that assumption is a myth that is increasingly being debunked. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/50/16)

Girls play games too: Anybody who doesn't admit that is the n00b running around yelling "OMG Girlz Don't Exist on teh Intarweb!!!!1" (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/17/27) And HG:L could--and should--be one of them.

Bill Roper, Ivan Sulic, and the whole Flagship Studios team have a tremendous opportunity to make a game that empowers and respects both male and female characters without mashing them into stereotypical molds. And we have their ear. The Hellgate Guru community exists to talk about our issues and be heard by Flagship. They need to know that they have a responsibility to their gamers, both male and female, to make their game the innovative, nigh-unpredecented blockbuster it could be by actually trying to appeal to and respect both genders.

A female character can have sex appeal without a body like Lara Croft (or Avalon) and bikini armor. A male character can be powerful without looking like a linebacker on steroids.

...Or can they? Nah, I doubt it. A game like that would never sell anyway. (http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00221/Half-Life_2_250_01_221677a.jpg)

[alerith]

...
Meh.

[Zindaras]

Heh, you spend hours of your life on the fourms, read through dozens of pages on the subject, and then can't be bothered to read one post that's less than 500 words? Your choice, I guess.

But since 56% of the Hellgateguru community considers the appearance of their character very or fairly important when compared to stats, I'd say it's an issue we can relate to.

[VorAbaddon]

Responded in the other thread.

[Scapes]

Please use the newer thread (http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4211).

Thanks!
-- Scapes