Your thoughts on subscriber content for singleplayer

[Amarra]

What are your thoughts on subscriber content for singleplayer?

To clarify the terms I'm using, what I mean is:
Subscription = Pay a monthly fee. Keep getting access if you keep paying, and lose access if you stop paying.
Expansion Pack = Buy once, keep forever.


Note: I am aware that singleplayers currently don't get subscriber content. I'm asking about how you think it *should* be. Also, some online subscriber content, such as guilds, is not relevant to singleplayer. Just assume that singleplayer subscriber content, if it existed, would only include the relevant content such as expanded stash, new skills, etc.

[Lonethar]

I would definately pay for it. But alot needs to be fixed before I would. Namely elite mode and the difficulty balanced. Once that was done I would have to see if the game didnt lose it fun factor after the last patch...

[MacBean]

I realized as I voted that an expansion pack would require patches and such as development changed. The matter depends on weither or not FSS would continuously supply new content or if it were just a one time thing. If they were to supply new content for a reasonable amount of time as well as access to the newest patches I would subscribe in a heartbeat. If this opinion was based on the current content offering I would have to pass as there, in my opinion simply isnt enough there to make me want to pay for it.

Did I lose everyone again and piss people off or did they follow that?

[Lonethar]

As a SPer Id like new content as much as anyone else. But I cannot argue that the subs are getting enough for their money. Id be SUPER pissed if I was paying extra money each month and only getting what they are. Thats just the way I see it. Im happy understanding that us SPers dont get all kinds of new content--it should go to the SUBS. And that content can come down the road... I just want a balanced game. I want to kick Tentacle face's ASS in normal nightmare. Baby steps ....BABY STEPS...!

Too bad we arent worth the effort to keep us better informed as to WTF is going on around here...

[Steelgaze]

I wouldn't mind if they structured it like Diablo 2 more and made it so SP was like the elite sub stuff.

Then again we only needed to buy Diablo 2 and it didn't have a sub service ..

But in the end I wouldn't mind taking up the founder offer of forking over 150 dollars for a 'lifetime' supply of updates, just that the game was rushed and I couldn't see myself paying something like that for such a bad release and needing to wait months for the patches to fix all the stuff which should have been done.

I wished they just didn't claim the game was 'done' and tossed it out to the stores when really it felt like a beta.

[Lonethar]

My own view reflects yours perfectly. On all the points you have made. If this was D2 I would have paid that money if they had a sub service. I so loved that game. May my level 86 Bowazon rest in peace....

[Amarra]

An interesting bit of information from the official forums:

From Scapes: No one knows yet. They're still deciding what will be available to Subscribers in Single Player and when.

So it's not set in stone that singleplayers will never get subscriber content.

[Steelgaze]

Honestly, I think if they enable it for subscribers in SP, I'm sure someone will find some way to 'enable' it for anyone.

[Lonethar]

Well according to this poll it would seem the choice we would like this direction to take is obvious...

[Spearthrower]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I missed it while on holiday.

Personally, I would like to see content released as part of an expansion pack. That is, in my opinion, fair to all.

Subscribers still get the value of their investment by having the content early and for a long time prior to SPers being able to pick it up.

Truly dedicated SPers get to experience a fully developed game with everything functioning adequately.

The expansion pack will need to be more than just fixes though, it needs to wait until there is significant content: i.e. at least 2 more factions, 50%+ more tiles, several new areas and plenty of new monsters and items. Top this off with hardcore and fix Elite (damnit!) and the expansion pack will be worth spending money on. It might even push the legacy of this game up considerably.

Meanwhile, new content will continue to be developed for Subs, so they are still getting their fee's value.

[Helion]

I would rather have it all for free, since applying subscription for SP content is next to heresy.
However, an expansion pack seems the best way for them to get some money for their job and for us to get contents that'll liven up our lonely experience.

[Lupernikas]

Even if we could pay a one off to download it to play offline, I'd happily do that no worries.

[Asuka Kazama]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scapes-Flagship View Post
Subscriber content won't be released for single player.

I know it wasn't what our SPers wanted to hear.
-- Scapes

[Sp3tSnAz]

Lame....

That's all I can say...

And Im a founder who exclusively plays online, but seriously... does FSS like to lose more and more money?

Exp packs at this stage for SP would be a gift to them monetarily, as I doubt that there are as many subs out there that could cover the amounts of expansions that would be bought imo...

[Amarra]

Yeah, it's pretty well known by now that singleplayers are second class citizens.

[Huskie]

Wow, that statement by Scapes just smashed the "We want to make our game fail" stamp on FSS' forehead.

P.S.: Typical, by the way, that they have "flagshipped" SPers even more... They have a reputation to live up to, after all!

[Lonethar]

This has to be the most predictable news ever. I truly wish I was surprised. I just am not. Rest assured that Mr.Roper has recieved the last $55 from me. LMAO! I dont feel too badly though. I did get the lukewarm fun that got my marksman to level 44. I feel betrayed. And ultimately, while I was pulled into a lie, I did only spend $55.

I shudder to think of having dropped $200. I would have been just fracking pissed!

Lonethar: Where is the elite mode that was promised to ALL players? Where is the SP patch that fixes the difficulty? Why arent we kept aware of the patches and fixes to the SP mode that you released for the game?

FSS: We HAVE a Single Players mode?

[Spearthrower]

It's no surprise to me whatsoever, and I do think realistically that having Subscription stuff in SP was always going to be near impossible due to security issues.

However, I also agree that FSS actually seem to be a bunch of noobs rather than the expert developers with years of quality game producing under their belts that we'd assumed them to be. While it may seem odd to the MPers, SP was the core of Diablo II - it still is. There are countless thousands who play SP D2 week in week out. That's a real bread and butter situation that an experienced company cannot ignore from an economic point of view. It's merely coming up with an innovative system to let that pay.... episodic downloadable content on a pay per play basis, for example. Still, if they want to limit their revenue stream, they clearly think they can rely on MP players who are much more notorious for abandoning ship (excuse pun) for the latest and greatest release.

FSS have let so many groups of people down now, I really wonder where they can go from here.

The whole Flagship has sunk metaphor, does suddenly seem rather appropriate.

[BryanM]

They planned on Expansion packs so it was obviously at odds with their "give us yer money or the game'll suck" strategy... still...

They could have sold bundles of Subscriber content down the line for single player mode - there wasn't any realistic way to enfore a subscription on a single player game. Would have been some nice residual income from the 20,000 people that'll still be playing the single player game then.

Hell, I think the "shareware loot" in the multiplayer is a retarded move. And is misnamed - shareware is something you can buy. That stuff is more like "rent-to-own" furniture that you can never pay off.

I love what they've done with the CR position, too. This is how I think it went down:

Ivan:
"Uh... I'm too busy writing face-rape jokes into the game, give it to some other guy!"

Kaiser:
"There will be subscriber content availible in single player."
"...."
"Woooooah, this is scary. Give it to one of them."

Scapes:
"What? I get to work with Bill Roper and all them?? Kickass!"
"...."
"Oh."
"No content at all of any kind for single player. Sorry."

[Lonethar]

I find it a laughing joke that we havent even heard ANYTHING back about our legitimate concerns. My two programmer friends take turns shaking their heads about the direction the game has taken with respects to SP support.

[Helion]

I have received time ago the newsletter about the new stonehenge patch and how subscribers will get a lot of new stuff. Also, on the release notes, there was a somewhat strong implication that a big chunk of the new patch, maybe even stonehenge, would be made available for SP. I don't want to get my hopes up for a new huge letdown, but, despite my efforts, I still have the tiniest scrap of hope that FSS MIGHT make a move in the right direction for us and diverge from their "We want to make HGL fail" trend.

[Cyb3r]

yeah i'm a freelance programmer and i studied economics aswell and basicly the way FSS is going down the road with singleplayer is wrong.

Heck i'll never ever play it in mp but i do want some decent time in sp though and it would be alot nicer if you could share you're stash over all you're characters and that some of the most utter annoying bugs in the game are fixed (aka still multiple chrashes)

Another big problem is Vista my standpoints on that heck i won't even start about that, but this is what is basicly true it seems like programmers can't follow up anymore with the differences between vista and xp.

A major one in that is video card drivers buggy nvidia driver anyone?
And most of that is caused utter simply by vista, most of the older drivers from nvidia or from other companies doesn't matter do seem to have major flaws since vista came out and everybody tried to keep up with creating drivers for an OS that feels like a beta aka just like HGL atm which is sad in both cases.

[Lupernikas]

I don't see what the issue giving SP more updates is, the FREE MP players get all the updates they need and more....they're not paying for anything yet they get better updates.....why not do the same for SP??

If they treated us better, I'd actually consider MP in the near future, as it currently stands they can forget it because I can see the cynicism involved here and it's turned me off completely due to very poor business practise and naff customer sevice. We're pretty much being ignored when they should try and give us reasons to 'switch' rather than deciding we're not going to and just brushing us under the carpet...give me reasons FSS and I could 'convert'....but you won't will you?

[Amarra]

I've been trying to track this down for a while. I finally found it when someone posted a link on the official forums.

This is an old quote from shortly before the official release of Hellgate: London.

While I can't get into the specifics, I can confirm that you will have access to subscription stuff in single player. You will need an internet connection, though.

-k

PS Sorry, it's been a little busy lately. :)

Source: http://www.flagshipforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3864&st=10&p=51969&#entry51969

Clearly they changed their minds, but I wanted to post this for record-keeping purposes since some people have attempted to claim that singleplayer was never supposed to get subscriber content at all.

[Sp3tSnAz]

Yeah, they've always talked of SP having the Sub content in one way or another, and it's sad that they decided to not do it even for those who already sub on MP :(

[Lupernikas]

Amarra thank you for that! You have got me excited once more lol!

I guess it means we have to do a one off download or something and pay for the privilage, which I'd happily do

[BryanM]

That was back in October, Lupernikas. They're not going to do that anymore, as currently indicated by the current CR guy, Scapes.

Kaiser also said that on the official forums back during beta, spreading false hope to all the small children. He doesn't post too often nowadays.

(I still believe in a hybrid model - "Booster packs" that activate a block of content for both single player and online. Relevant blocks would need content around the lines of the new classes+skills, while lagging behind the subscription to a sufficient degree that it's still worthwhile. So - first one about a year and half earliest in theorycraft land.

In the end I guess it'd relegate the subscription service only to people who really, really love the game. Which one could argue is the only function it currently serves anyway.)

[Amarra]

Yeah, sorry to disappoint you Lupernikas. I'll edit my earlier post to make it more apparent that it's an old quote.

[Asuka Kazama]

Yeah not much can be heard from Kaiser these days but am glad they got Scapes. He does a great job for the restrictions he has to work with.

[Lupernikas]

Hey no worries Amarra, it was overly optimistic false hope anyway.....I am dumbfounded that FSS don't realise what this is doing for their reputation though!! I myself used to be a very regular player and bore the bugs as they were going to be fixed...but now I think I'm one of the increasing number of disillusioned and hardly play anymore. Perhaps a patch coming out would change that, well if it delivers what we hope it would then it will