What ONE thing are SPers envious most about the MPers?

[Lonethar]

Whats the ONE thing BESIDES PATCHES you wish we SPers had as well as the MPers?

For me I wish I could trade my loot to my fellow SPers. As in a system where the item was PERMANENTLY removed from the characters inventory forever. Id love to be able to benefit from the farming of other character. And Im SURE my fellow SP Markmen would LOVE my uniques Ive found. I LOVE the loot the latest patch has gotten us.

As an aside Id like to use this post to say something else. I am a whiner and complainer. Im a perfectionist in real life and this game grates on a person who sees the glaring shoddiness and incompleteness. I will quantify that statement with this. The newest patch has elevated my enjoyment to a new level. And while I have no problems with saying these fixes should have been a part of its initial release, Ive learned that sometimes games are literally forced out the door. Literally.

Am I making excuses for anyone? Am I saying there is "GOOD" reason for all the bugs? No. Ive just taken a real step back in blaming the developers for them. I recently had a chance to talk to someone close to the Electronic Arts programmers and got a real education on how these games are put together and released. Quite an education I can assure you. And while I could make several points...good points...Ill boil it down to one sentence. They NEVER wanted to release a game with lots of problems.

Im an awkward way I suppose Im apologizing for failing to see BOTH sides of the story and launching my attacks on the game without considering both sides to the story. Id invite those who flame the game to do some research into whats all involved in the release of games like this to do the same.

[Tsuyu]

It would be nice to at least be considered a customer to FFS. I mean, seeing how every customer is getting Elite mode for free and we don't, thus leading to the conclusion by which I started my reply with.

[Lonethar]

Id be confident saying thats the number 1 SPer issue.

[Tsuyu]

That and the fact with are second priority when it comes to fixing and patching the game.

[Amarra]

I wish we had Elite mode.

That has to be a bug, though, since the SP Patch 0 notes specifically said that Elite was supposed to be enabled in singleplayer. (And that was nearly 2 months ago, back on November 3rd).

If we're talking features as opposed to bug fixes, I'd really like to see dye kits enabled in singleplayer for people who have the appropriate preorder codes. I'm not among them, by the way, I just think it's really unfair to those people.

[Lonethar]

Ive made posts dealing with all these issues so I can totally understand. Why havent we heard ANYTHING about our issue with Elite mode?

[Amarra]

Just to share what I know:

The elite problem was reported on the official forum, and Scapes said he would forward the question to Tyler Thompson and post when he received a reply. That was on December 13th. To my knowledge there's been no reply yet, or at least none that was posted publicly.

[Lonethar]

Thanks for the info Amarra. Need a set of Elite marksman armour? See my general post to see why I ask.

[deni23n]

Dye kits and transferring items frm one SP to another. I cant say anything about elite yet, havnt fin normal yet. I cnt miss something i dnt have.

[PacMaan]

Multiplayer would be great if it wasnt for all the other people.

Bots FTW :!:

[MacBean]

It would be nice to at least be considered a customer to FFS. I mean, seeing how every customer is getting Elite mode for free and we don't, thus leading to the conclusion by which I started my reply with.

I don't need to say a word as it has already been said.

[Tahapenes]

Personally, why does it take so long for fixes to be pushed to SP that use the exact same fix in MP. Surely there isn't that much difference between the server side engine and the single player enginer (I'd bet there isn't much difference at all, much like the differences between SP and MP D2).

[MacBean]

Personally, why does it take so long for fixes to be pushed to SP that use the exact same fix in MP. Surely there isn't that much difference between the server side engine and the single player enginer (I'd bet there isn't much difference at all, much like the differences between SP and MP D2).

I made a similar observation and got a little flamed for the assumption, even though I stand by my point, being, how different could the two version of the game be? It's doing the same thing, one on a server, the other on a persons PC. The problems are the same, the code (other than the online aspect) should be the same.

I agree, whats the hold up?

[Lonethar]

Im envious about the fact that MP patches are announced ahead of time and they are informed WAAAAY better that SPers.

[tod_22]

I have to say I kind of envy MPers (subscribers really but since it's MP only) for the new content they get. I would be happy if they had some plans to eventually release it as an expansion pack.

[phxhawk]

I played MP and it was too time consuming for my lifestyle. Players were great, etc, but I simply don't have enough time to devote to MP.

I really miss ATMA, that fantastic utility program for Diablo. It enabled SP to mule items to other characters. Seems like one class always gets great stuff for another class, doesn't it?

I know my post doesn't exactly fall under the "Envy about MP" subject, just my 0.02.

[Virus]

Concerning the Elite mode issue:

Since the vast majority, if not all, of the subscriber player pool plays Multiplayer, it is wise for FSS to focus on them first. That being said, SP is way behind MP in terms of Patches. Please note that during BETA, Elite mode was still a Subscriber Perk, which would be the reason why SPers can't play Elite mode, because the non-Patched Single Player mode still is verifying if a player is a sub or not to play Elite mode.

Does that fix the problem? Absolutely not. Just explains it a bit.

Most Humblest Regards to SPers,

Virus

[Lonethar]

Thank you for your post. I didnt knoww that was the reason it didnt work...

[Amarra]

Please note that during BETA, Elite mode was still a Subscriber Perk, which would be the reason why SPers can't play Elite mode, because the non-Patched Single Player mode still is verifying if a player is a sub or not to play Elite mode.

Thanks for the information.

The problem is that even the patched singleplayer version can't play Elite mode. See here: http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/single-player-patch-live

The relevant point is:
What you do get is everything else including tuned game progression, NPC tweaks, Gossip, and Elite Mode.

So Flagship knows it's a problem and they've tried to fix it. Yet in two patches they somehow haven't succeeded yet.

[Virus]

So Flagship knows it's a problem and they've tried to fix it. Yet in two patches they somehow haven't succeeded yet.

Welcome to Hellgate London.

Anyway I'm sorry for the issue you are experiencing. There is many problems that FSS knows about but can't or haven't fixed yet. I guess this is just one of them, I was just trying to figure out why it wouldn't allow Elite mode to turn on. Perhaps it was supposed to be turned on but never was?

/shrug

Once again, sorry.

EDIT:
A new patch for single player has just gone live. What's this patch include? Essentially, it updates the single player game with Patch 0 content and features, given a few exceptions. These are:


* None of the multiplayer-only features (guilds, PvP, mode, etc.)
* No Halloween-themed content
* No subscriber-only features


What you do get is everything else including tuned game progression, NPC tweaks, Gossip, and Elite Mode. You can check out a detailed list of all the changes, minus the content above, here.

What is probably happening, IMO, is that these two statements are contradictary, which I've highlighted in bold. On 11/03/07, as the date this was posted, Elite mode was in fact a Sub Only Feature. May just be a typo or an internal issue.

[Amarra]

What is probably happening, IMO, is that these two statements are contradictary, which I've highlighted in bold. On 11/03/07, as the date this was posted, Elite mode was in fact a Sub Only Feature. May just be a typo or an internal issue.

I'm not certain that's the case.

This post (http://hellgatelondon.com/underground/subscribers-and-patch-0) from October 19, 2007, indicates that Elite Mode has been opened to all players. Note how Elite Mode is listed in the "Multiplayer - All Players" section, and not the "Subscriber Features" section.

The singleplayer patch is from November 3rd, 2007. And that's just the first singleplayer patch. Even the second one didn't address the issue either.

[Lonethar]

I have done extensive work to find out information and I understand the same thing as Amarra. Elite mode is open to all players.

[Virus]

Although true, wasn't it true that when MP and SP went live, SP was still a couple patches behind MP, even at release?

Patch 0 for MP was the most recent state, can it be confirmed that SP's Patch 0 was on the same levels? I had thought it was behind, like SP's Patch 0 was on par with a BETA-Patch, may have been before Oct. 19. I can't confirm this though, but I had thought I heard when HGL was released that SP wasn't even finished as much as MP was, but the Official Forums are misleading.

Also in the quote you used, it is listed in Multiplayer - All Players (meaning Subs and Non-subs IMO) so it does not necessarily mean that SP was included. All I can remember was that the live releases of SP was behind MP, this behind may have caused this Elite Mode glitch.

Not trying to argue with you Amarra, seeing that if I played SP I'd want this as well.

EDIT: If it had said Single Player Updates, then it would have been unrefutedly clear, but since it isn't, SP IIRC was behind a couple patches compared to MP at time of release.

Once again I am not trying to argue with you, but to perhaps clear up an issue so more players can figure out why this is occurring.

[Lonethar]

You can look at it this way. If we were wrong about this we would have, the both of us, been jumped all over about this topic. The posts in other boards confirm what we previously expressed. We cant all of us be so wrong.

[Amarra]

I have not played Beta, so I can't comment on that.

However, SP Patch 0 was supposted to be the same as MP Patch 0.

A new patch for single player has just gone live. What's this patch include? Essentially, it updates the single player game with Patch 0 content and features, given a few exceptions.

The exceptions include subscriber content, of course, but the intent of my previous post was to point out that Elite had already been released as non-subscriber content in multiplayer. As such it was not contradictory to release it for singleplayer and at the same time state that singleplayer doesn't get any subscriber content.

The problem is that they *tried* to release it, but now, over two months later, they still haven't succeeded.

[Virus]

And I completely agree. I believe this was just the way I was typing out responses that made it seem like I was argumentative. What I was inclined to say was simply this:

You are right, but this may be the cause of what happened.


Now, let's compile the information we have.

Oct. 19 Elite Mode was switched from Sub to Non-Sub for Multiplayer.
Nov. 3 Patch 0 for Single Player was released. Claiming to have Elite Mode, which it did not.
Dec 18 Patch 0.6 was released catching up Single Player with Multiplayer, Supposedly.

Now let's look carefully. Obviously something is wrong, as you both have suggested. My theory is that between Oct. 19 and Nov. 3, it was never switched over to all players in Single Player mode (referring to Elite). If this wasn't done in that time frame, it would explain why Elite Mode still does not exist. If it's getting caught up, it's getting Patches on Skills, Bugs, and Errors, not featured (Sub-Only) content. So in the filter they use to maintain that SP doesn't have Sub-Only content, it must have accidently screened Elite mode out.

I'd suggest taking this combined information to the HGL Official Website and showing them where they went wrong.




The only other way I can think of is that you do know you must beat Normal to access to Elite. But I assumed that this was previously done. So that can't be an issue either.

[Amarra]

I didn't mean to sound argumentative either, so thank you for helping us work through this information. :)

I certainly intend make sure Flagship knows about the problem. I didn't have official forum access for the last two patches, but this time I do, and I plan not to let them keep ignoring this issue on the next patch.

[Virus]

Ha, never thought you sounded it. I just know I have a certain way of typing/saying things that many people take as offensive.

If you would like for me to post anything on the HGL Official, just let me know and I will. I have access to a couple of developers who respond to the majority of PMs I send them, maybe it would be better sent through that means as well.

Let me know if I can help though.

[Lonethar]

I think, and Amarra can correct me if Im wrong. But I understand from her that she has tried getting information from them for awhile now. And it was futile. I did see stuff like this posted to other sites though. Nothing definative. Im giving up frankly on expecting ANYTHING from them. Ill let anything that they release hit me as a pleasant surprise.

Edit: Hoo boy what damage I would do on that site. Maybe its good I have no access to the official forums.

[Virus]

lol, I'll contact the developer contacts that I've made, see what they have to say about it.

I'll report back here whenever that happens.

[Amarra]

Asking about it has been futile for me, yes. But they could very well have been reading the bug reports then deciding not the respond. Even though they refuse to say anything they might be very aware of the problem.

What I'm hoping is that on the next SP patch they'll release a beta first, just like they did with the 0.6 patch. When that happens, if the beta patch doesn't include Elite, I'll report the problem again (loudly if necessary) to try and make them fix it for the final patch.

[Lonethar]

I have a torch AND a pitchfork for you Amarra. And a nice Macintosh apple too...