Enough is enough...where is the SP patch we all want?

[Lonethar]

I am not a patient person. I keep on hearing the "..any day now.." line over and over. This is just not an acceptable or satisfying answer. If your boss asked you when you were going to get something done and you answered him with "..oh...any day now!" what would happen next?

[Asuka Kazama]

You'll have to be patient as MP gets priority especially now since they are under pressure to release 1.0 before Dec 31st.

[Lonethar]

You'll have to be patient as MP gets priority especially now since they are under pressure to release 1.0 before Dec 31st.

The thread was as to WHEN the patch is going to be released. Not about my need for patience.

[DeadPL]

to de end of month ?

[Grifthin]

"..any day now.."


:)

[Amarra]

I find it irritating that SP players paid just as much as free MP players for this game, yet we have to wait so much longer for patches. If it were just subscribers getting faster patches I could understand it, but that's not the case here.

I'm holding out hope that the SP patch might be released in parallel with MP 0.7, which will supposedly be today.

I know the SP patch is not equivalent to MP 0.7, by the way, I just mean that Flagship might be waiting to get all their patch work done in one day.

[backfir3]

I find it irritating that SP players paid just as much as free MP players for this game, yet we have to wait so much longer for patches. If it were just subscribers getting faster patches I could understand it, but that's not the case here.

I'm holding out hope that the SP patch might be released in parallel with MP 0.7, which will supposedly be today.

I know the SP patch is not equivalent to MP 0.7, by the way, I just mean that Flagship might be waiting to get all their patch work done in one day.

MP is always going to be the priority, it has the larger base and it's where the subs live.

Patch 1 is their focus as they undoubtedly hope it will sway opinion with it's variety of design and will encourage players to not only buy the game but also subscribe to their ongoing content package. Perhaps even reviewers will take another look aiding the process.

I'm not saying this is the 'right' way to do things, just that they have to focus on what is good for their business or they won't be able to progress as a company.

If you could choose: Would you rather they spread their time evenly with a slower overall progression at the potential detriment to their own survival, or put the focus on MP where it's needed with a slight delay to SP with more potential to continue support and development the game?

[Spearthrower]

MP is always going to be the priority, it has the larger base.

Can you show me the data you are basing that assumption on? ;)

I'd be prepared to bet you that the worldwide sales minus the worldwide server members indicate a healthy majority for SPers.

Of course, I can say anything I like as neither of us has the data to prove it.

I wish people wouldn't make these assumptions though.

Simple fact is, only Subs deserve higher attention. SP and Free MP are equal in terms of contribution of funds. Free MP costs a small amount of money to maintain, SPers are free.

I am 100% sure that no market research has yet been done to see whether a Free MPer or SPer is more likely to sub.



Back to topic though, just wait Lonethar.... if nothing else, we SPers can mark ourselves by our resolute patience and optimistic outlook. The devs wont fail to be impressed and will litter our paths with wonders!! ;)

[Rubix3]

according to
http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11022

0.7 and 1.0 patch are right on top of eachother at this point. We have 4 different branches going at the same time and they are all competing for test time and TestCenter usage. We've got the single player patch, 0.7 patch, 1.0 patch and the latest branch.

there is a single player patch , it just needs to be tested

[Spearthrower]

They can send me the SP patch, I'll test if for them! :D

[backfir3]

Can you show me the data you are basing that assumption on? ;)


The majority of users here seem to chose MP. The SP forum was added as an afterthought which is also some indication, albeit nothing truly accurate.

I've posted a poll here to see if we can determine the true majority game mode chosen by those who sub to this forum:
http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11060

I'll check to see if there's a current poll on the official forums also.

[Spearthrower]

The majority of users here seem to chose MP. The SP forum was added as an afterthought which is also some indication, albeit nothing truly accurate.

I've posted a poll here to see if we can determine the true majority game mode chosen by those who sub to this forum:
http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11060

I'll check to see if there's a current poll on the official forums also.


Oh no, I agree that currently there are quite a few more MPers here on HGG than SPers. That wasn't the question really though however, and the poll can't really be used as representative of anything other than the numbers of MPers/SPers using this site. Although, that's interesting in and of itself! :)

Further, any and all polling on this subject is inherently flawed. You can't do an online poll about whether more people play ONLINE or OFFLINE! ;) Not really fair as there are plenty of people who play SP thanks to having no internet connection as well.

In general, the MP community is just more likely overall to be online and looking at a forum. SPers tend to lurk a bit more gleaning scraps of valid information as and where they can. No evidence for that, just from experience.



As I said, the only way to really obtain valid data is to look at the number of sales worldwide and then subtract the number of individual users on servers. Of course, that's not to say that all the remainder are playing SP.... many of them could be people who played MP and then quit the game for whatever reason. Still it would give you some numbers that would help to represent the potential for error... and that potential would be huge! ;)

Unfortunately, without inside statistics, it is really difficult to come up with anything like a valid number here. But I still always see this repeated argument of "There are more MPers that's why there's more focus on MP patches".... something inherently unproveable! ;)



As to why the SP subforum was an afterthought - we got it because I asked for it and the powers that be agreed that it was a good idea.... and I intend to make sure that it is a safe haven for SPers. A lot of SPers come to a site such as this and are immediately put off because they get given incorrect information for their client, the strats are invalid for their playstyle etc..... but with an informed SP subforum, we can generate a really healthy SP community here. We will attract people as they visit, find a SP friendly location and settle themselves down. Then word of mouth will spread it further!

It's happened before - this exact scenario happened with a D2 forum. Once SPers there were finally given a niche to call their own, it became huge and far outweighed the rest of the site. It's still going strong now - I've already "met" a number of old D2 SPers on this site!

All I can really say is "watch this space"! :D

[backfir3]

Unfortunately, without inside statistics, it is really difficult to come up with anything like a valid number here. But I still always see this repeated argument of "There are more MPers that's why there's more focus on MP patches".... something inherently unproveable! ;)

Fair, and I'll bow to that. It was a rather thoughtless statement.


Further, any and all polling on this subject is inherently flawed. You can't do an online poll about whether more people play ONLINE or OFFLINE! ;) Not really fair as there are plenty of people who play SP thanks to having no internet connection as well.

I thought this was a no-brainer, but I guess details avoid spam and such ;)

Saying this, I know plenty of people who play consoles and PC games offline as they have no connection at home yet who are members of online communities via connections at work or a family/friend/girlfriend's connection etc..

And I never suggested this would be accurate.

However, i will stand by my argument that the lure of a decent MP mode will do more for the company than an SP. MP gaming is currently the future, with more and more companies investing in the potential of MMO games of one type or another. From what I've gathered: Most reviews were focused on the MP aspects of this game and there was a higher level of player anticipation of the MP modes. Also most of the continuing focus on the games failings and disappointments on other forums seem to be aimed at aspects of MP suggesting the focus will continue to remain here.

-

To divert back to your previous post:


Simple fact is, only Subs deserve higher attention. SP and Free MP are equal in terms of contribution of funds. Free MP costs a small amount of money to maintain, SPers are free.

Subs may be the only ones who deserve it, but unfortunately they are inherently tied to MP. I'm sorry to state the obvious too, but as a stable MP base is essential for producing more subs it will remain a higher priority as long as the current business model lasts.

[Spearthrower]

Not actually disputing anything you said, but again, we can't really be sure to what degree a SPer or Free MPer is more likely to subscribe. I'd be inclined to accept that a Free MPer is more likely to feel the pressure of the subscription benefits.... but then again, a SPer currently has a lot more potential benefit from subscribing.

All we can safely say is that letting either side of their community down is not in their best interests.

Check out Galactic Civilizations II for a game that adamantly refuses to include a MP mode.... it so outsold its expectations, they're just releasing a 3rd expansion! A more deserving company would be hard to find too! :)

There really is a huge SP market and it is partially untapped.

I do totally and wholly agree though, that for most games, they need to provide both SP and MP to garner the widest spectrum of support.... even if that just means a LAN option.

[Eternalchaos]

Alright :) patch wise.. expect v0.7 and 1.0 for MP to come out pretty quickly (as listed above) Within 2 weeks I say at the most.

SP wise, patch v0.6 is somewhere hehe.. odds are it may just be skipped infavor of a v0.7 for SP.

I do agree with spearthrower. FSS has to provide both SP and MP to the public; It is tough to make two spereate patches however. One way to do this is "rotate" your patches

one MP gets stabilized (like v1.0) start doign something like this.. bring SP to v1.0.. then MP gets the next patch v1.1 SP then gets v1.1a next patch goes to MP with v1.2 This way you tap both markets and provide equal support. Another way is keep SP 1 patch behind. We get 0.7 on MP, they get 0.6 We get 1.0 they get 0.7 . The Final way is to extend the launch time of patches liek 1 week, and launch SP and MP side by side.

[Asuka Kazama]

Can you show me the data you are basing that assumption on? ;)

I'd be prepared to bet you that the worldwide sales minus the worldwide server members indicate a healthy majority for SPers.

Of course, I can say anything I like as neither of us has the data to prove it.

I wish people wouldn't make these assumptions though.

Simple fact is, only Subs deserve higher attention. SP and Free MP are equal in terms of contribution of funds. Free MP costs a small amount of money to maintain, SPers are free.

I am 100% sure that no market research has yet been done to see whether a Free MPer or SPer is more likely to sub.



Back to topic though, just wait Lonethar.... if nothing else, we SPers can mark ourselves by our resolute patience and optimistic outlook. The devs wont fail to be impressed and will litter our paths with wonders!! ;)

Subscribers pay the bills and subs wouldn't be paying to play single player unless they are paying simply to support FSS. It just means free MP players reap that benefit as they end up getting priority to bug fixes as well because they play MP & FSS isn't going to make bug fixes sub only. And for Lonethar, if we knew, it'd be posted =).

[Spearthrower]

Subscribers pay the bills and subs wouldn't be paying to play single player unless they are paying simply to support FSS. It just means free MP players reap that benefit as they end up getting priority to bug fixes as well because they play MP & FSS isn't going to make bug fixes sub only. And for Lonethar, if we knew, it'd be posted =).

As already mentioned.... until this point, everyone has paid the bills! ;) Everyone's supported FSS with their cash. My choice of playing offline does not influence the amount of money I paid for the game!

Once the game is stable, patched and bug-fixed.... *then* the subs are paying the bills for extra content! ;)

Let's establish that clearly.... subs are not paying their monthly fees for bug-fixes... they are paying for content. Everyone's retail purchase is paying for a working, bug free game. Let's not mix the two! :D

At present, let's be fair... SP has had next to nothing done to resolve its bugs. It's had one patch that didnt even implement Elite properly... it actively introduced bugs. So to be totally fair, SP deserves to be prioritised rather heavily.... however, I am accepting that 1.0 is a major goal, but beyond that I can't consider giving them any more benefit of the doubt.

[MacBean]

Here is the link to the SP2 beta patch.

http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=59449

Found it on the official forums. Although the patch notes claim it matches, MP patch 0.6, I've already found a couple differences. Unless I'm mistaken the Nanoforge, Augment, and De-Mod machines in MP 06 have slpit screens, this SP2 patch doesn't. I'll keep looking and playing.

[Spearthrower]

Cheers MacBean.... but I'm a lowly South East Asian player... we're not allowed on the real forums!! :(

[backfir3]

Cheers MacBean.... but I'm a lowly South East Asian player... we're not allowed on the real forums!! :(


Here's the post as it reads on the offical:


Single Player Patch 0.6 Voluntary Beta Available

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mavericks, offliners, and other varieties of solo Hellgaters: we have heard your call! A voluntary beta version of the new Patch 0.6 for Single Player is now available for download.


*** PLEASE NOTE ***
THERE IS A CHANCE THAT YOU WILL NEED TO UNINSTALL AND REINSTALL HELLGATE: LONDON WHEN THE FINAL VERSION OF SINGLE PLAYER PATCH 2 RELEASES. BEAR THIS IN MIND BEFORE YOU DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL!

The patch notes for Single Player Patch 0.6 can be found here. The link to download the beta version of this patch is available here. One more small caveat is that this beta patch only works for North America, Europe, and German users. Additionally, this is also the beta of Hellgate: London's new launcher layout.
-- Scapes

The download link seems to work without a login, so here it is for convenience - (click (http://downloads.hellgatelondon.com/patches/standalone/singleplayer/Patch_NA_Europe_Germany_SP_0.6.exe))

[MacBean]

Cheers MacBean.... but I'm a lowly South East Asian player... we're not allowed on the real forums!! :(

Oh... sorry Spearthrower. Thats lame!

[backfir3]

Oh... sorry Spearthrower. Thats lame!

I wouldn't be too sorry, he's only a lowly SPer after all. They won't bleed if you beat on them, and their tears are just genetically remembered responses or memories of a time they used to enjoy sharing their feelings, more knee-jerk than anything. They don't actually have emotions.

[Eternalchaos]

ouch.. to beta test SP v0.6 you might have to uninstall after that's lame.. but then again you are altering the SP exe and all files correlating to SP to a beta state.

[lockwoodx]

ouch.. to beta test SP v0.6 you might have to uninstall after that's lame.. but then again you are altering the SP exe and all files correlating to SP to a beta state.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2144/ajixx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Oh man that is lame. Way to give your players incentive to test your products FSS. They should make it alot less of a hassle.

[Lonethar]

Well spoken Spearthrower. Im am so amused by the people who think the MPers are more morthy of the patches than the SPers. I just cannot understand the logic there. Not one bit.

[Lonethar]

Well spoken Spearthrower. Im am so amused by the people who think the MPers are more morthy of the patches than the SPers. I just cannot understand the logic there. Not one bit.

This isnt to say that the Subs arent worth of the extra work...they ARE paying more for an active service than Spers. But ALL of us paid the same for the game. And really, what do us SPers and namely ALL of us really want? The game as it was intended. Without GLARING bugs. And shoddy rushed video gaming.

[backfir3]

Firstly, anyone that outright says that SPers are of less value than MPers as a flat statement should considered a troll leading you to their bridge and ignored for a more pleasent route across the river ;)

-

I still don't see the point of all the nagging. You know the patches are coming, you're not being ignored.

You also know (as I mentioned before) that subs will most likely be the focus and as they are tied directly to MP, MP will also most likely benefit before SP.

Hopefully FSS will catch up a little as the pressure of expectation eases a little, but until then it would probably benefit us and them a whole lot more if our energies were put into suggesting actual improvements for the core of the game rather than worrying about attention.

[Eternalchaos]

see I agree with you all.

SP and MP sub get the biggest support in my book.

SP you paid for a Sp game, and until the SP game gets put into a finalized, stable state they deserve attention. After the game is stable and working right focus should then turn towards subscriber content on a majority level. Right now people need to understand FSS is getting HG:L fully operational (unlike the death star). Until that point SP needs as much love as MP. Subscription doesn't count ; however FSS does need to lay off giving SP subscriber content every other day. They are almost invalidating the point to subscribe if they keep this pace up.

[Amarra]

Here is the link to the SP2 beta patch.

http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=59449

Found it on the official forums. Although the patch notes claim it matches, MP patch 0.6, I've already found a couple differences. Unless I'm mistaken the Nanoforge, Augment, and De-Mod machines in MP 06 have slpit screens, this SP2 patch doesn't. I'll keep looking and playing.

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the one bug that was holding me back before. As opposed to fixing elite mode, this patch removes it completely. :(

[Molehs_Mum]

Quit all yer whining, the SP patch is now avaialble, start yer game!

[Asuka Kazama]

SP deserves it's due patches of course however as things go, MP is just going to come first and those who play free MP just benefit from FSS taking care of MP subs first. Yeah everyone paid for the game however some people tend to forget that someone had to pay for the years the game was in development too and since FSS shafted subs shafted subs/Founders by giving away sub benefits after launch and hasn't shown much in return for doing so FSS at this point really owes those folks big and 1.0 is going to help a good number of people decide to stick around or not.

It's one of those things where at this point in time it's smart to take care of the clients you got now and worry about getting more later. It's a shame that 2 seperate patches need to be coded but not much can be done there.

Also keep in mind, the game has only been out 1.5 months and we're actually not doing half bad for such a short period of time. FSS is a small company but are cranking out some good stuff. They did however bring the pressure on themselves for toting all the game development experience FSS brings as you can read in their "About" section.

[Asuka Kazama]

Quit all yer whining, the SP patch is now avaialble, start yer game!

Heh, it's only temporary until word of the next SP patch comes through but maybe after 1.0 is out they'll have things more streamlined, who knows.

[Molehs_Mum]

Heh, it's only temporary until word of the next SP patch comes through but maybe after 1.0 is out they'll have things more streamlined, who knows.

No, I mean the official SP2 patch is out via the normal start menu...

[MacBean]

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the one bug that was holding me back before. As opposed to fixing elite mode, this patch removes it completely. :(

I agree. It seems this patch doesn't fix many things on my priority list as well. I still have the slightest thread of hope as this patch IS considered a beta patch, perhaps they will see to the Elite issues as well as a couple from my legal pad of HGL headaches.

[Asuka Kazama]

No, I mean the official SP2 patch is out via the normal start menu...

I was referring to the whining. The halt in the whining is only temporary until FSS streamlines things a bit more so SP fixes comes a bit sooner after the MP ones get pushed to live.

[Molehs_Mum]

OIC, I was just making a jab at the SPers. I don't have any issues with 'you all'. I can see you desire for 'your' game to get update just like the MPers.

[Amarra]

I agree. It seems this patch doesn't fix many things on my priority list as well. I still have the slightest thread of hope as this patch IS considered a beta patch, perhaps they will see to the Elite issues as well as a couple from my legal pad of HGL headaches.

It just downloaded the official patch, and Elite doesn't appear to to fixed there either. This is extremely disappointing.

My last hope is that perhaps I have to finish Normal mode a second time to unlock Elite properly. I'll see how that goes.

[MacBean]

My last hope is that perhaps I have to finish Normal mode a second time to unlock Elite properly. I'll see how that goes.

I hope thats all it is. Keep me posted!

[Amarra]

I hope thats all it is. Keep me posted!

I tried it. No luck there, sadly.

Looks like this patch doesn't help those of us waiting for Elite mode. :(

[Naminator]

I find it irritating that SP players paid just as much as free MP players for this game, yet we have to wait so much longer for patches. If it were just subscribers getting faster patches I could understand it, but that's not the case here.

I'm holding out hope that the SP patch might be released in parallel with MP 0.7, which will supposedly be today.

I know the SP patch is not equivalent to MP 0.7, by the way, I just mean that Flagship might be waiting to get all their patch work done in one day.

What are you talking about!
Theres no such thing as an MP and SP players!
Thats just OPTIONS!
You paid 50$ and you have the SP and MP, same as me or anyone else!
I hope you understand that they are not giving anyone special treatment!
Everyone get what they paid for.

[backfir3]

What are you talking about!
Theres no such thing as an MP and SP players!


There are those that focus soley on Single Player, and those that focus entirely on Multi Player. What would you suggest we call the two different types then?


You paid 50$ and you have the SP and MP, same as me or anyone else!


Which is the root of a heavy Heavy SP argument: As all SPs and non-sub MPs have paid the same amount, they should recieve equal treatment.


I hope you understand that they are not giving anyone special treatment!


Subs are the focus of the current HG:L business model, so subs recieve updates and patches first. Therefor FSS are indirectly giving MPs special treatment as Subs are inherently tied to that game mode.


Everyone get what they paid for.

Actually, none of us have got what we paid for yet. We're getting there, but the game certainly doesn't yet do what it promises on (and in) the box.

Game modes not running properly, modifiers not working, skills bugged... the list goes on.

SPs have an expecially bad time as their patches are running behind.

[Naminator]

There are those that focus soley on Single Player, and those that focus entirely on Multi Player. What would you suggest we call the two different types then?
What I was referring to is that theres no individual package's that are different (SP and MP). SO when she is getting the same treatment as me, I just happen to play a different mod.
Which is the root of a heavy Heavy SP argument: As all SPs and non-sub MPs have paid the same amount, they should recieve equal treatment.
Wait are you telling me that the SP players are not allowed to the non-sub MP content or something? Because as far as I know they can, and if they can then I don't see how they are getting less that the other people for their money.
Subs are the focus of the current HG:L business model, so subs recieve updates and patches first. Therefor FSS are indirectly giving MPs special treatment as Subs are inherently tied to that game mode.
I'm sorry but I have not seen 1 patch that was given to subs before the non-subs and does the "pay more=get more" logic mean anything to you? This is like me complaining to a car dealer that I get a worser car because I bought a car for 30k and some other guy bought an upgraded version because he paid 50k.
Actually, none of us have got what we paid for yet. We're getting there, but the game certainly doesn't yet do what it promises on (and in) the box.

Game modes not running properly, modifiers not working, skills bugged... the list goes on.

SPs have an expecially bad time as their patches are running behind.
Thats nothing but your opinion!
If I think the Hellgate box its self worth the 50$ then I got what I paid for.
Get where I'm going with this?

[Amarra]

Wait are you telling me that the SP players are not allowed to the non-sub MP content or something?

That is what's happening, in fact.

Elite mode, for instance, which was given to non-sub MP players back in Patch 0, is still not working in SP.

[backfir3]

What I was referring to is that theres no individual package's that are different (SP and MP). SO when she is getting the same treatment as me, I just happen to play a different mod.

If you don't say what you mean with clarity, how are we supposed to decipher your exact meaning?

While the actual box for SP might not manifest itself in a separate physical package to MP, the SP mode was extensively marketed at those who were unable (or would chose not) to play online as a separate package.

As FFS marketed the game as mentioned and at no time stated that SP would be running behind MP in terms of development (if they did, please link me), the SP argument that they've been treated unfairly can be seen as a valid one.



Wait are you telling me that the SP players are not allowed to the non-sub MP content or something? Because as far as I know they can, and if they can then I don't see how they are getting less that the other people for their money.

SP patches are behind MP patches. Therefor they are getting less value for money than non-sub MPs.

As Amarra correctly pointed out, SPs have not received Elite mode while MP non-subs have.



I'm sorry but I have not seen 1 patch that was given to subs before the non-subs

MP currently get patches ahead of SP.

One of the reasons is that Subs are a major focus for FSS due to their current business model.

ALL Subs are MPs so ALL MPs indirectly benefit from the Sub focus, while SPs do not.



Thats nothing but your opinion!
If I think the Hellgate box its self worth the 50$ then I got what I paid for.
Get where I'm going with this?

I'm not debating the games subjective value. I for one am entirely happy with the product I bought. However, aspects of the product I bought have been broken since launch so in effect we've all brought a defective product.

I'm a sub, I play MP exclusively and that fact that SP is lagging behind has no effect on my enjoyment of the game at all. I'm not complaining (if you pay attention to the thread you'll see I take the same stance as you, I'm just viewing this topic objectively) but if we're going to follow your lead and type in such absolutes, we may as well do it properly.

[Spearthrower]

Let me add to the clarity of this as well

What I was referring to is that theres no individual package's that are different (SP and MP). SO when she is getting the same treatment as me, I just happen to play a different mod.


You are mistaken!

You need to look at them as clients. Basically, the MP client and SP client are totally different entities - go and look in your game directory for proof!

SP and MP are patched differently and therefore the game experience is potentially very different.


Wait are you telling me that the SP players are not allowed to the non-sub MP content or something? Because as far as I know they can, and if they can then I don't see how they are getting less that the other people for their money.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. There are effectively three layers happening. Subs - who at present have nothing particularly special to call their own but they will do eventually. Free MP who currently have practically all the things Subs have. SPers who have barely any of the elements added for Subs and Free MPers - that's bearing in mind the new patch though..... but is heavily revolving around the "Elite" mode which was made open to "all players" on pretty much day 1.

If SPers aren't included in "all players" we need to be informed of why not!!


I'm sorry but I have not seen 1 patch that was given to subs before the non-subs and does the "pay more=get more" logic mean anything to you? This is like me complaining to a car dealer that I get a worser car because I bought a car for 30k and some other guy bought an upgraded version because he paid 50k.

No it's nothing like that.

No one is complaining about not receiving sub only content, you need to go and reread what people have said. People are asking for bug fixes - these are not being paid more for by Subs than by SPers. The bug fixes are paid for by the initial purchase, nothing more, nothing less. Subs are paying for extra content.... let's make that perfectly clear.

Your analogy is totally flawed.

If your example car buyers spent 30k and 50k respectively and both had broken cars... they both deserve to have working cars, irrespective of their initial outlay. The 50k buyer doesnt have more right to have a working car than the 30k buyer. They both equally deserve to get a valid product.

[backfir3]

Let me add to the clarity of this as well



Excellent, thank you. :)

[Guardian_Ralka]

Hello there Everyone,
Name is Matt, and i signed up to these forums to say hi to fellow players. I'm Mainly a single player guy, as i don't really have the time to properly enjoy the online experience, but was a veteran of Star Wars Galaxies once upon a time...

I just updated my game to the 0.6 patch, and got a rude shock when my SP characters were wiped... Tried restart of game, reboot of system, to no avail. :(

I then tried to create another character with the same name, only to be told by the game that this was impossible due to the fact that a character of the same name was already in use. This i took to mean that all my characters were still there, i just could not access them anymore. All i got was the character creation screen when you start out playing the first time around.

Has anyone else had this happen to them yet? or i am i an isolated incident?

My main was a level 41 Guardian, and i had JUST gone through to start over again with my Sydonai Chest plate, so i was understandably upset when i could not access it...

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Here is a screen of my main shortly before he was sucked into the hellgate triangle of doom:

[Spearthrower]

Hi Guardian_Ralka

One thing to be sure - your characters are still there.

Look in:

C:\Documents and Settings\...\My Documents\My Games\Hellgate\Save\Singleplayer

All your characters will still be there.

Phew... ok.... now heart beat can return to normal, clumps of hair pulled out can be reinserted!! :D


As to why they aren't being shown in this latest patch, I can't help yet!

I know it's not a perfect solution, but a reinstall will at least let you back into your characters again.

[Guardian_Ralka]

:D Cheers for that Spearthrower!
your right, my heart is finally coming back down after that scare, lol.

I'll try to see if i can reinsert them into the game before i have to cast reinstall...

heres hoping, heh.

[Naminator]

That is what's happening, in fact.

Elite mode, for instance, which was given to non-sub MP players back in Patch 0, is still not working in SP.
Your again missing the point of what I've said. SP and MP are nothing but different mods of the game, when you purchased the game you get SP and MP (it's still the same game). Therefore you are still allowed to join MP with the latest patch, again you are no different than me, my SP and my MP clients are the same as yours, and just because you are willingly trying to play a different mod that gets it's updates late does not mean you got less value from the game than me, I just happen to play a better mod, which you can too, you just don't want to.
If you don't say what you mean with clarity, how are we supposed to decipher your exact meaning?

While the actual box for SP might not manifest itself in a separate physical package to MP, the SP mode was extensively marketed at those who were unable (or would chose not) to play online as a separate package.

As FFS marketed the game as mentioned and at no time stated that SP would be running behind MP in terms of development (if they did, please link me), the SP argument that they've been treated unfairly can be seen as a valid one.
You guys are not even looking at this game as a whole!
Every one in here has MP and SP, MP is just more updated, no one (other than the pirates) can't access MP and it's newer updates.
I can see where you stand if you are not looking at this game as a whole, but that is just absurd and an ignorant way of seeing this.
Understand what I am trying to say? No is limited to SP only so just because some people prefer the SP better does not mean they get less updates (they still receive MP updates, weather they play on it or not).
SP patches are behind MP patches. Therefor they are getting less value for money than non-sub MPs.

As Amarra correctly pointed out, SPs have not received Elite mode while MP non-subs have.
Yet again. NO
There is nothing stopping anybody from playing MP. Just because these people want to play an outdated mod does not mean they are receiving less updates. Click the MP and try to log in, you'll see that we all have the same client (if it's up to date)
MP currently get patches ahead of SP.

One of the reasons is that Subs are a major focus for FSS due to their current business model.

ALL Subs are MPs so ALL MPs indirectly benefit from the Sub focus, while SPs do not.
Wrong, I must agree that the MP is the focus but not because of the subs. You are looking at this too bluntly!
DO you know why there's a thing called test server? Because they need a massive community that can provide feedback on the bug's and other things. There is no way that FSS can provide a bug free patch for SP without testing it on a massive scale. The devs can not identify and search for bug on their own, it will take too much time, but with a help of a massive community, their feedback can go up x100.
You are mistaken!

You need to look at them as clients. Basically, the MP client and SP client are totally different entities - go and look in your game directory for proof!

SP and MP are patched differently and therefore the game experience is potentially very different.
Yet again, talk to me when you will buy a legit SP-only copy of the game and then tell me that receive less value but payed the same price.
Yes, that's exactly what's happening. There are effectively three layers happening. Subs - who at present have nothing particularly special to call their own but they will do eventually. Free MP who currently have practically all the things Subs have. SPers who have barely any of the elements added for Subs and Free MPers - that's bearing in mind the new patch though..... but is heavily revolving around the "Elite" mode which was made open to "all players" on pretty much day 1.

If SPers aren't included in "all players" we need to be informed of why not!!
Yet again, you can always switch to MP and get the same connect and updates as me. No one got less updates and no one get less for their money. Like I said before, just because you are willingly and knowingly playing a crappier mod than me does not mean you are getting less for you money.
No it's nothing like that.

No one is complaining about not receiving sub only content, you need to go and reread what people have said. People are asking for bug fixes - these are not being paid more for by Subs than by SPers. The bug fixes are paid for by the initial purchase, nothing more, nothing less. Subs are paying for extra content.... let's make that perfectly clear.

Your analogy is totally flawed.

If your example car buyers spent 30k and 50k respectively and both had broken cars... they both deserve to have working cars, irrespective of their initial outlay. The 50k buyer doesnt have more right to have a working car than the 30k buyer. They both equally deserve to get a valid product.
I think you should reread, he clearly mentions that subs get more attention then the non-subs. I don't see a problem with this seriously.
Your come-back statement for the car example is laughable.
NO ones car(hellgate) is broken, it's only broken from your point of view.
And yes, if you buy a sh*t car that looks like it's going to die when you start and the other person buys a new mustang, then yes the other person deserves to have a more working car.

[Hannya]

Your again missing the point of what I've said. SP and MP are nothing but different mods of the game, when you purchased the game you get SP and MP (it's still the same game). Therefore you are still allowed to join MP with the latest patch, again you are no different than me, my SP and my MP clients are the same as yours, and just because you are willingly trying to play a different mod that gets it's updates late does not mean you got less value from the game than me, I just happen to play a better mod, which you can too, you just don't want to.

(...)
No is limited to SP only so just because some people prefer the SP better does not mean they get less updates (they still receive MP updates, weather they play on it or not).

(...)
There is nothing stopping anybody from playing MP. Just because these people want to play an outdated mod does not mean they are receiving less updates. Click the MP and try to log in, you'll see that we all have the same client (if it's up to date)


Really, I'm getting sort of tired of this particular reasoning. What you are saying is that, as both game mods came within one box, everyone unhappy with the state of SP game should play MP instead and stop complaining.

Broken logic.

First thing, not all SP'ers play SP by choice (take care to read relevant topic in SP subforum before making such assumptions). There are people with unstable / too slow connections, people living in "difficult" timezones, people with some RL issues, and perhaps others with reasons of their own.

Second thing, even those that play SP purely by choice (as I do) have every right to expect a fully functional and up-to-date product. The game was labelled as supporting both mods, period. The fact they are both part of the same game is irrelevant, as some people (myself included) wouldn't even consider buying it if SP mode was not supported. But FSS said it is. They promised, we paid, we have every right to expect them to deliver as promised. That includes bugfixes and executable patch files, as "internet connetcion required" was not seen on the game box (really, even Bioshock has executable patch file, and that game requires net connection for installation!). We are by no means entitled to any of the subscriber content (even though I believe some of us would gladly pay for it were it available for offline play), but we have every right to expect everything that free MP players get. That's all there is to it.

I don't really understand the entire "car analogy", as price has nothing to do with this, free MP players didn't pay more for the game itself than SP'ers. Subscribers did, but that's another story, noone sane is going to deny them the right to extra cookies (though, incidentally, so far they didn't get too many).

BTW, just for the record, I'm not particularily impatient when it comes to SP updates (though I can understand that people still forced to play retail version may be less forgiving). I can understand the reasons why SP patches are being a little delayed and I certainly wouldn't normally complain about it now that SP 0.6 was finally released. I'm just tired of "it's your fault for playing SP" mentality.

[backfir3]

Your again missing the point of what I've said....

I apologize if this seems slightly flamey, but there is absolutely no point in an objective discussion with one who clearly has no interest in anything but broken logic, an entirely superficial sense of things, and their own opinion.

And thank you Hannya <3

*twiddles thumbs and waits for spear to dive in*

;)

[Amarra]

Spear said he was going away for a while. He was leaving today, I think?

We SP players will have no champion for a while. ;)

[lockwoodx]

Spear said he was going away for a while. He was leaving today, I think?

We SP players will have no champion for a while. ;)

Not much to champion about. SP while limited is fun. For players who enjoy the game but have a poor internet connection SP is for them. Multiplayer is where subscriptions and $$$ come from, so obviously they get priority. You guys enjoy your thing, other people will enjoy their thing.

Game, set, match.

[Spearthrower]

Naminator, having read you call me and others "ignorant" and "stupid" now a number of times when it is clearly you failing to have even a tenuous grasp of the situation, completely missing the entire point and touting a totally obscure and unbalanced position.... rather than replying I shall instead wish you a very Merry Christmas!

Lockwoodx - SP is where it's at.... forget the "internet connection" thing. How many Free MPers provide the $$$? Oh yes again, that borked statement that gets eternally repeated. If nothing else, playing SP means I don't have to witness you spamming Chat..... that's got to raise the value inestimably! ;)

[MadDawg2552]

This is like me complaining to a car dealer that I get a worser car because I bought a car for 30k and some other guy bought an upgraded version because he paid 50k.

A better car analogy would be this:

Two people bought the same car for 30k. One person complains that it is too hot in the car even with the window rolled down and other person suggests they use the air conditioner. The first person doesn't want to use the air conditioner because of personal reasons, even though the option is available to them.

[Spearthrower]

A better car analogy would be this:

Two people bought the same car for 30k. One person complains that it is too hot in the car even with the window rolled down and other person suggests they use the air conditioner. The first person doesn't want to use the air conditioner because of personal reasons, even though the option is available to them.


Nope, that doesn't make sense either. The only real car analogy would be between one car with a single seat and one car with two seats.... many people here seem to assume that the 2 car seat has a higher priority! :rolleyes:

Anyway, making analogies between product purchases and software purchases never makes any sense as the tangibility of the product is different.

The simple fact with this game is: there is both a Single Player and a Multi Player client.

Both should be equal in terms of bug fixes.

Both should get Elite mode.

Neither of those are questionable. The only people who do question them follow an "I'm alright Jack" mentality which happily contrives endless objections to deny the other from receiving equal treatment. I am perfectly happy to accept a fair amount of time between MP and SP receiving the updates too as they have to test them individually - that's not as issue.

As an SPer, I do not expect nor want additional content. I knew that as a SPer I would not be subbing and therefore any additional content would not be included for me.

However, and I'm yet to see anyone actually address this mostly because it's impossible to justify, FSS opened Elite mode to "all players" in their first patch.

Further, on the third of November, FSS made this announcement:

http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground?page=6

Single Player Patch Live
A new patch for single player has just gone live. What's this patch include? Essentially, it updates the single player game with Patch 0 content and features, given a few exceptions. These are:

None of the multiplayer-only features (guilds, PvP, Hardcore mode, etc.)
No Halloween-themed content
No subscriber-only features

What you do get is everything else including tuned game progression, NPC tweaks, Gossip, and Elite Mode. You can check out a detailed list of all the changes, minus the content above, here.

You can download this patch by clicking the big button at the top of the game launcher. If for any reason you don't see it, don't worry. The release is a little staggered to keep our server nice and happy, so just keep checking back and eventually you'll see it. Thanks

My bold and coloured words for emphasis.


Since then, no statements have been forthcoming as to why SPers do not have a working Elite mode.

The latest patch has actually had the non-functioning Elite mode button removed which clearly indicates that they know that we don't have a functioning Elite mode. Still no explanation why.

I do wish people would gather the facts before they state random and unbalanced opinions about what SPers are entitled to or not.


And for the final thing - I dont tell you how to play your game, so quit with the "you could just play MP". We were given a SP client - it's a core part of the game.... it's not a "mod" :rolleyes: and we deserve equal bug fixes and options as Free MPers.

[Tsuyu]

There, there Spear. Obviously some people here are too much of a numb skull to answer to reason. Most of us get it, we who matters anyway.

[Lonethar]

Psst...I want to revive this thread to get up to date information on the NEW patch for SPers. Im looking at YOU Amarra and of course Spearthrower. And all the others who have been part of my education. Im very grateful for the information from the MPers. Very cool guys and gals...

[Amarra]

Yes, I'm still keeping an eye out for singleplayer patch information.