Transmogrifying Cube Whine Thread

[lockwoodx]

That cube looks very familler.

Why should people get it if they didn't pay for it?

[backfir3]

Why should people get it if they didn't pay for it?


They shouldn't.

Still, I can't help but wonder if this kind of content would have been packaged with retail if they'd had longer dev time...

[The Punisher]

(Sorry for a really negative post all)I'd be surprised if Blizzard aren't considering copyright issues about now.
If Honda makes a car that looks similar to a Ferrari then Ferrari can't do a damn thing to Honda coz its only looks like a Ferrari, its not a Ferrari with a Honda emblem :rolleyes:

Come on people can we keep the whining about what non-subs don't get to the official forums? I come here so I don't have to read that shit in every thread...

What you bought in the box and didn't sub for IS THE GAME. Anything more that you get is a bonus. The Cube is a sub only content, if you don't like it then either quit playing or sub, but for the love of god this is NOT Diablo 3.

I'm not a sub, but I'm just sick of this constant pissing and moaning about what you non-subbing people deserve over the people who pay monthly.

In D2 the Cube was an esential part of the storyline so it was avaialble to all players after a certain point in the game. In HGL it is NOT an essential part of the game, but rather an extra little perk you get for PAYING A SUBSCRIPTION. You doNOT need the cube for any part of the storyline. So it isn't a core part of the game.

Come on people think a little and quit whining.
You chose to purchase and play this game.
You chose not to subscribe.

If it is honestly that big a deal to you and you simply cannot afford to pay monthly, then it appears you have made a bad purchase -- knowing full well stuff like this was coming.

If you can't justify paying monthly, then you shouldn't be complaining about this issue.
Couldn't have said it any better myself :cool:

[Spearthrower]

If Honda makes a car that looks similar to a Ferrari then Ferrari can't do a damn thing to Honda coz its only looks like a Ferrari, its not a Ferrari with a Honda emblem :rolleyes:

Completely disagree with you, that's at the very basis of intellectual property and copyright issues. You can't nick my design and whack your badge on it, that's just design theft. :rolleyes:

[edujackass]

That cube looks very familler.

Why should people get it if they didn't pay for it?

because its an essential part of the spiritual sequal of d2.

[Spearthrower]

because its an essential part of the spiritual sequal of d2.


This isn't a sequal to D2.

Stop flogging the dead horse.... or better yet... just go and make a thread in the Plains of Despair whining about this needing to be included. Then everyone's happy! ;)

[Naminator]

subscriber only

wer being fucking bullshited again.
*thinks about the end of the game saying SUBSCRIBE NOW and now confirms that you have to subscribe to truely play a diablo III*

i aggree with all people,
it is like they made the game like crap and are now implementing all the good things that the game should have had from the start and making them subscription only.
its all about the money, its ridiculous cant they just make some fucking stuff for free and drop the subscription? :D im pretty sure it would make a whole lot more people buy the game.



QFTMFT

Ohhh rly??
Its all about the money? Sheeeesh what a rip off and I always thought that all these big companies are making games and all the other stuff for fun and to give it all out to charity!
GET F'ing real people!!!! Show me an F'ing gaming company that does not make games so they can make money!

PLus everyone plz stfu about what should have been in the game from the beginning and what should have not! Only FSS can decide that, no one else!
All you people are talking smack about how you would like content more instead of these "useless" "gimmicks" and "perks" but yet you guys get pissed because your not getting them! Seriously wtf? that makes no sense!

[Dubz]

You chose to purchase and play this game.
You chose not to subscribe.

If it is honestly that big a deal to you and you simply cannot afford to pay monthly, then it appears you have made a bad purchase -- knowing full well stuff like this was coming.

If you can't justify paying monthly, then you shouldn't be complaining about this issue.

QFT

[hired]

Restorative is for subs... gg FSS.

From my observation, ppl use to defend FSS when they limit 3 char slots, look now what happen? maybe its not a good idea to defend FSS... all I want to say is if you really want FSS to change their business plan, do it by not subscribing, it they can't get enough sub numbers, then maybe they will change if to upgrade packs.

[Mercurio]

That cube looks very familler.

Why should people get it if they didn't pay for it?
non-subcribers will complain because they will not get it, and it gives to subscribers an advantage over them.
subscribers will complain because they will not get it too, since they rent it, and it is not enough ;)

I think the main flaw of HGL commercial model is that they are not offering a service to subscribers (like server running and maintenance, hard-disk space for character slots and so on) but they are renting small content with trivial production cost.

I'm sure HGL on-line community will be reunited soon. Only subscribers will last: non-sub will be pissed off or they'll decide to subscribe. Only 2 or 3 subscribers, I mean, the others will be pissed off because they don't get "enough". :confused:

I hope I will not see any other game I care with this utterly stupid commercial model.

[Sp3tSnAz]

Restorative is for subs... gg FSS.
From what I can tell, it isn't any different to casting 2 potions at the same time (ie. one health and one mana) and all it lets the subs do is press one less button....

It costs us the same price to make one (ie. we still have to make both) and all we get is one extra bindable key really...

So it's not really a necessity to have this, and is just a perk of getting people to sub... In all honesty if subs had nothing different to them, no one would subscribe. You can't just rely on ongoing content for the subs, as there needs to be some differentials out there that you don't have to find (like items and quests) and can enjoy as a new gamer just logging into the game for the first time...

[hired]

Not sure about using health and mana pots together though, haven't been ingame a few days, but i fondly remember i can't use the other when i use one of the either and vice versa, correct me if i'm wrong.

[Sp3tSnAz]

Im not sure either actually lol :p

But I thought that I had done it before, although now Im not 100% sure on if I did, or if I just cast them quickly one after another...

Although what I might be thinking of, is that you can cast a mana potion while the health one is on cooldown, so that would mean you can't cast them within the time that it's healing you which is a little bit different, but still it's not 15 seconds, which imo does not make it that different to casting the 2 within 5 seconds of each other which is how long the healing lasts as far as I remember...

So really I don't see it as being an advantage really, as I never have to cast both at the same time either way as I have such vast differences in mana and health with most chars... so to me, the actual potion is more of a waste really, rather than choosing which one you need at the time...

However IF it does function like a rejuvination potion in D2 (ie. Instant cast) then I agree that it's broken to only give it to subs, as it is now, really it's not a big difference...

[edujackass]

Restorative is for subs... gg FSS.

From my observation, ppl use to defend FSS when they limit 3 char slots, look now what happen? maybe its not a good idea to defend FSS... all I want to say is if you really want FSS to change their business plan, do it by not subscribing, it they can't get enough sub numbers, then maybe they will change if to upgrade packs.

QFT

this is just another ''torture plan to subscribe'' just like the 3 character slot idea was.

This isn't a sequal to D2.

Stop flogging the dead horse.... or better yet... just go and make a thread in the Plains of Despair whining about this needing to be included. Then everyone's happy! ;)

yeah i bet nobody follows the game cuz it is made by the people who made the diablo series.

everybody just folows the game cuz they like the title! thats it dude!!! YOUR SO SMART!!

about the potions, maybe they just forgot that they wouldent make the subscribers get better stuff thus being overpowerd to the free players.

Spiritual Successor =/= Sequel

my bad im sorry.. i was also thinking successor but when i typed it i thought wtf successor.. isent this called a sequal..? but thanks for correcting me

[Tsuyu]

Spiritual Successor =/= Sequel

[Spearthrower]

QFT

yeah i bet nobody follows the game cuz it is made by the people who made the diablo series.


:rolleyes:

Warped Logic Extreme!!! :lol:

Just because they're the people who made the Diablo series doesn't make this the successor to it.

It's like saying that they are only capable of making one game series and that's it.

Actually, people followed the game because they expected FSS to make a high quality game given the success of the Diablo series, not expecting a direct replica.

If you mistakenly followed it for an illogical reason, then you've only yourself to blame.


And next time you bring up that "there must be a squillion things wrong with this game because this forum even needs a Plains of Despair" - just take a step back and look at your own actions. You turn every topic into a 1 horse problem. Everything has to revolve around your complaints even when you were specifically asked to leave it out of this topic - you've still repeatedly dragged it back to your own little whine. HGG made the PoD to give people like you somewhere to post to stop dragging every post through the gutter.... even then you haven't got the decency to follow it. It's a no win scenario. Plenty of people are happy enough with the game to play and to talk about the positive aspects without having to listen to a broken record.

[Spearthrower]

EDIT: For those completely lost with the random post order - this is where we created a new thread and then merged everything else in. ;)



Hopefully the mods will merge random whiney crap from other threads into this big Uber whine thread about the addition of a Transmogrifying Cube for subs.

I think the transmogrifying cube is a perfect little addition to the subscribers arsenal of extras that help them get value for money.

It's totally unneeded in the game and non-subs have no need of it other than a "I want" factor.

It's such a tiny little thing, yet people have made such a huge noise of it.... disproportionate levels of whinage.

At the end of the day, every person buying this game knew that Subs would be getting loads of little things to make their investment more valuable than the free players, so it's not surprising they chose things like this that attract interest.


For me, my biggest gripe with it is that it is a total plagiarism, not just a nod to the Horadric Cube and I think they could have done a damned sight better job of developing an item that gelled well with the game world.


Discuss / Whine mercilessly.

[edujackass]

alot of people (like me) still do see this game as their d3 and therefore followed it for the years it took to develop, i remember there was poll about it..

@ the longstory, tl;dr.

edit/

http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2561&page=2

120 people followed it cuz they saw it as their diablo III

[Spearthrower]

Well that's fine, you may well do that.... it doesn't mean it's the truth though.

Trying to impose that vision onto other people's experience is also not fair.

I'm all up for free speech and I think HGG goes out of its way to provide for that, but be fair and do it in the right place.

To help, I have made the great Transmogrifying Cube Whine thread!!! :D

http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189704#post189704

Direct the complaints there and leave this thread for subs who want to talk about this in a positive way.


/edit 2 things there to your edit.

1) Lots of mistaken people doesn't make something right.... it just makes lots of mistaken people.
2) The wording there is a LOT different than expecting it to be a direct sequal to D3. The wording there implies that it will be a game that will replace the same enjoyment found from D2.... not that it will be a direct successor - in fact, if you read the comments made there you can clearly see that people didnt actually expect it to be anything like D2 aside from monster killing and loot collecting.

[Darksaber]

LOL @ non-subs :)

Pay yer money, ya cheapskates :D j/k

[edujackass]

thanks for trying to put me down by creating this thread, il continue our discussion in general discussion.


and i dont know wtf u mean with a gripe, plagiarism, gelled but the transmo thingy sure is a horodric cube.
and discussing isent the same thing as whining.

[Spearthrower]

It's not trying to put you down.... don't be silly! If I wanted to put you down, I'd send you a PM.

The point is that this is the subforum for whining.

General discussion is not.


Why not raise your points here in a logical fashion?

Otherwise, I can only assume that you just want to troll other threads.

The thing you've got to realise is that the thread in general is NOT a discussion thread about Transmogrifying Cube for subs only.... it's about Screenshots. That's it.

Stick to the thread topic, if you want to make a whiney post, then make your own post and leave others to do their thing.

[Spearthrower]

and i dont know wtf u mean with a gripe, plagiarism, gelled but the transmo thingy sure is a horodric cube.
and discussing isent the same thing as whining.

Get a dictionary? ;)

What I said was: It's a copy of the Horadric cube... which I think is stupid.... they should have made something more suited to the HG:L world, not just ripped off a bit from D2 that doesn't fit in the game.


Finally, you aren't discussing. You are making a lot of negative statements that aren't open for discussion: that's whining.

[edujackass]

so... 120 people made a mistake seeing this game as diablo III?
it sounds pretty logical to me to expect a ''DIABLO III LIKE'' game from fss.
its sad that mountainman got fanboid away :/ he always had good anti subscription arguments ^^

ok it will replace the same enjoyment found in d2 cuz it is made by the creators of d2... sounds like a direct successor to me...

and alot of people actually did expect it to be like d2 but with some new stuff
now give me some fucken sleep its 04:00 allready ^^

[Spearthrower]

so... 120 people made a mistake seeing this game as diablo III?


No, what it seems like is you are trying to imply that seeing it as a Diablo 3 means that people expect to see things directly from Diablo 3 in Hellgate London. That's just patently untrue. If you actually read the comments in that thread you can see that is not so. MOST of the people there clearly said that it will replace Diablo 2 for them in terms of giving them a new game to kill demons and collect loot.....and in that way it will be a D3.... not that they expected it to have the same themes etc. If this is your argument as to why there should be a transmogrifying cube... then where's our Assassins, Barbarians, Druids? Ohh they're not there?? My god, they failed to make a D3.... :rolleyes:

it sounds pretty logical to me to expect a ''DIABLO III LIKE'' game from fss.
its sad that mountainman got fanboid away :/ he always had good anti subscription arguments ^^

So every game that EA makes has to be a Basketball game then does it? What a silly argument.

Just because HG:L will fill the same gap of gaming that D2 players like, does not in any way mean that there should be a transmogrifying cube for all non subscribers.... this argument is twisted so many ways, it's hard to even begin pulling it apart! :D

And you have some comprehension problems. I am totally against subscription in this game, I think it's incredibly silly.... the difference is that I try to keep my arguments to relevent threads rather than trying to turn every thread into an argument about subscriptions. ;)


ok it will replace the same enjoyment found in d2 cuz it is made by the creators of d2... sounds like a direct successor to me...

:lol:

See, you want to twist it your way. That's fine, but if you are the one with mistaken expectations, you have only yourself to blame, not FSS.


and alot of people actually did expect it to be like d2 but with some new stuff
now give me some fucken sleep its 04:00 allready ^^

I am sure they did, then the real world happened and they learned that expectations are sure to disappoint.

When they release a game called "Diablo 3"... then you will be most definitely be in the right to have expectations for it to be a successor to Diablo 2.... otherwise it's all just your own misinterpretation! *shrug*

[G-15]

thanks for trying to put me down by creating this thread, il continue our discussion in general discussion.

No you won't. Keep this discussion here, or get an infraction point. Period.

[Sulfuric]

For me, my biggest gripe with it is that it is a total plagiarism, not just a nod to the Horadric Cube and I think they could have done a damned sight better job of developing an item that gelled well with the game world.


Agreed.

Hell, at least Mythos went fairly original with it. Zivia's Puzzle Box. Sure, the functionality and the shape are the same...but it's a PUZZLE BOX instead, not a cube. The graphic is a little different, whereas the TransCube's graphic and coloring looks a lot like the Horadric Cube.

But seriously, everyone knows that Icosahedrons are the shape of the future.

Fuck.

[Sp3tSnAz]

Combining all the whine posts from the other thread into this one, so if the order is a bit fucked up, that's why :p

[Spearthrower]

A bit fucked up? It's completely insane :p

The opening thread is now 3/4 of the way through hehe.

Nevermind, at least all the shit is in the same place! ;)

[Sp3tSnAz]

Lmfao, yeah well, not my fault... the posts get moved in chronological order :p

But yeah, at least all the people who want to argue know what's going on, and it's easy enough to see what the issues were and so on :)

[Darksaber]

<-- Sits back and enjoys the warm firelight of all the flaming posts, ahhh.

Cube, schmoob, noob. What.Ever. It'll be out in the next expansion pack that everyone'll have to buy.

[Molehs_Mum]

I like a nice cabernet sauvignon and perhaps some aged cheddar....

[Ave]

so... 120 people made a mistake seeing this game as diablo III?


Yes of course 120 is the majority of the people who play :rolleyes:
And even if it was, doesnt make their opinion correct.

[edujackass]

Yes of course 120 is the majority of the people who play :rolleyes:
And even if it was, doesnt make their opinion correct.

im not saying that it IS diablo III but just that alot of peole see hellgate as diablo III. and how can they then be incorrect as it is just a mather of opinions?

[Sp3tSnAz]

Because it's not their decision on whether the game should live up to D3... it's FSS' decision... that's why...

While they might THINK that this is D3 to them, that does not mean that FSS who is the one who makes the decisions has to do everything that's the same as D2 had...

That's why even if to some people the cube is an essential part of D2 and they think that D3 should have it, in the end it's not up to those people to decide whether HGL is D3 in spirit or if it's a game that the developers intended to be different in various things and not consider something like the cube an essential part of the gameplay...

[Tsuyu]

If you can't tell that HLG is supposed to be a spiritual successor to D2 you are an imbecile, or don't know what a spiritual successor in the world of gaming is.

[Sp3tSnAz]

Yes, but while something might be a "spiritual successor" in your mind, does not mean that the devs believe that in needs to have everything that was in the original provided the same way as it was before...

That's what edujackass is trying to convey with saying that the cube is an integral part of D2, so it should be an integral part here...

However while the game follows similarities to their previous games, that does not mean that their intention is to capture every single thing that the original game had, and while they might take the best features, they may take a different approach that might not seem as in "spirit" of the old game to some people.

Look at their subscription plan for example, they are now thinking about profit a lot more rather than providing everything for free. People could argue that if you are a spiritual successor you would not do such a thing. However who is to say what is in the "spirit" of the old game or not, and whose decision is it to say what is integral and what's not... The cube while being a major part of their old game does not have to transfer into this game as being such an integral part, as this game is NOT D3, and while it might have some similarities to some people, that does not mean that the devs intend it to be a carbon copy.

Guess what Im trying to convey is that there are various degrees that each individual could see what a spiritual successor is, and to some people it essentially means carbon copy, while to others it just means it's developed by the same team with a similar theme to the game...

Now to say which of these is the right view, really falls down to the devs, whose decision it is to make which features they want in this game to encourage people to pay each month, and you can not say that they should not do that as it's not in the old games spirit...

[Molehs_Mum]

If you can't tell that HLG is supposed to be a spiritual successor to D2 you are an imbecile, or don't know what a spiritual successor in the world of gaming is.

But HG:L is not D3 and until that is proven otherwise you all have no case...

[Tsuyu]

Spiritual Successor=/=Sequel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_successor

[Molehs_Mum]

Spiritual Successor=/=Sequel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_successor

Exactly:

A spiritual successor, sometimes called a spiritual sequel, is a successor to a work of fiction that, instead of being a standard sequel, only shares genres, themes, styles, and (often) creators with the previous work, without continuing a story. While this term can apply to almost any media, it has most commonly been used with video games.
So as I read it, what ever HG:L has that is similar to D2 is a perk but not a requirement.

[Tsuyu]

My point is; FSS shot themselves in the foot with this one, as "We made Diablo 2!" was an "unofficial slogan" for Hellgate.

You have to understand why people are getting upset when they take a core element out of D2, then make it sub only.

[Molehs_Mum]

Yes but it's not important to HG:L, which makes it a perfect perk for subs. If it were a required part of gameplay then sure I could see you whiners having a point, but as it stands you are pissing and moaning because you don't get free shit.

EDIT: Okay here is a 'real life' game example for this situation:

Guild Wars: Eye of the North has a Hall of Monuments. If you put shit in your HoM your new character you create in GW2 will get free loot. Having bought and played GW:EN is much like subbing. So if I get GW2 and get some leet gear that is a throw back to GW1 because of my HoM you would think that a new player to GW2 deserves the same thing.

The game company is saying "Thank you for being a continued valued customer and as a thank you we would like to provide you with a gift of our gratitude." It's all about prestige for the paying player. If I sub then I get cool loots. If I don't sub then I have to stand there and be pissed because I'm not subbing and not getting cool loot.

Is this a bait and switch tactic? Nope. At no point did they give any notice before it came out that there would be a trans cube, so no one can say "Hey I bought HG:L so I could get the cube and now I I have been tricked when I find out it's only sub".

FSS could bring in god damned Deckard Cain and make him sub only, and it will still be a non-critical game element that is a perk for subs only. If you want the cool toys you have to pay, they made that quite clear from the get go.

[Tsuyu]

But they said it was going to be perks, not serious super advantages. They said so themselves. The ...things... you can make that are like Rejuvenation Potions in D2 will be extremely powerful.

[Molehs_Mum]

But they said it was going to be perks, not serious super advantages. They said so themselves. The ...things... you can make that are like Rejuvenation Potions in D2 will be extremely powerful.

And more than likely they will either not be allowed in vs non-sub PvP or they will get tweaked to balance it.

So now it's not about what you whining non-subs deserve, it's about game balance? Which is it, I'm getting confused?

[Tsuyu]

Neither. It's about FSS not keeping what they promised, that's what it is. I play Single Player exclusively so I could care less about subs or non-subs, but this is bullcrap.

[Molehs_Mum]

Neither. It's about FSS not keeping what they promised, that's what it is. I play Single Player exclusively so I could care less about subs or non-subs, but this is bullcrap.

Okay, what did they promise?

[Sp3tSnAz]

They are not rejuvination potions... read about them...

They are basically 2 potions that can be used at once, normally you have to wait 5 seconds in between, that it takes each potion to work...

However most people don't use 2 potions at the same time ever, as you never need both mana and health that badly at the same time, so as it costs us both potions to make one either way, I actually see them as being pointless...

This means that it is just a perk, and the argument that it makes the normal player worse off is not correct.

If we see something that really does disadvantage the non subs, then I will understand complaints, but as of now, such things do not exist...

[Tsuyu]

Okay, what did they promise?

That subs weren't paying to become stronger than anyone, items like sub-only weapons and armour only had cosmetic benefits.

[the_wolf]

What did they promise? Molehs's got a point there. While I might be one of the people that see HG:L as a spiritual successor to D2 (honestly, who doesn't?), at no point it is justified to expect HG:L to include what D2 has.

The cube was not part of the original plan. Ok, maybe it is. But the fact that it's not included in the retail is the first sign that it is not a critical feature and that it is not at all in the priority list of FSS. That is what perks are all about and that's why it's called a perk. It's about something that's not worth bitching about.

For fuck sake, why is it when FSS chunk in those tons of blueprints, potatoes and skull helms there's no non-subber whines about it? Because it sucks and nobody would want them. Now they put in some cool Cube which bears the same 'Subscriber Only' emblem and they bitch because it's cool.

God I love Plains of Despair.

EDIT: You don't seriously think that the subbers pay a plate of meal per month for some cosmetic shits?

[Tsuyu]

Didn't say they promised that they would only give out cool looking weapons and armour. There is still the other stuff like uh, improved PvP? I dunno, but I didn't mean that that was what they would only get. But they did say that the items wouldn't give them an advantage over non-subs.

[Molehs_Mum]

So you are complaining about your specualtion about what has yet to effect anything? There is no real PvP yet, so any perks that subs may currently get from the cube only effect duels, which as I understand are pretty pointless. It'd be easy enough to put a limiter on items that could be used in PvP...

So then does this once again boil down to complaining just to complain?

[sssj408]

i bought this game because i was under the impression that it was made by the same people who made d2
d2 was so inovative and spectacular i still found myself playing it a couple months ago and the things that made it so cool was stuff like the cube and the spells i love the bone spear and stuff like that , but this game feels to monotinous . sure the name sounds cool and everything but ive seen better names that where shittier games

they deffinetly should of waited to release this . i know this seems like complaining but the price for the product is high sub price is ggod but content is shitty...

i just finally bought guild wars im gonna stick with that for now

i miss the cube though

[Molehs_Mum]

^^Sorry sir, could you please rephrase you comment in the form of a whine?

[the_wolf]

Yeah, it's a whine thread you *tuuuut*.

And in what way does the Cube make subbers advantageous over non-subbers? The sheer pleasure of ejaculating when discovering the recipe of Immortal King's Panties?

[The Fury]

The arguments about that cube "needing" to be included within the basic design of the game are bunk...for all we know it's quite possible that this was FSS's plan all along. I don't quite understand why people think that a game in a similar vein of Diablo 2 MUST have a cube. Is it possible that it was originally slated to be put in as a feature for release? yes. Is it equally possible that it was slated to be added as a subscriber only feature sometime in the future? yes. Aside from that potential truth, anything else is just speculation.

[Eternalchaos]

it is a tight spot.. However; everyone might be going under teh assumption that the T. cube is technically the propriaty of Blizzard.. and yes while "diablo 2" is .. some of the used textures and content may be propriaty of the developers.

:) anyhow... If FSS keeps giving stuff to Free acounts, they are going to bsaically screw their subscribers and they will all quit

Don't be silly here. How would all you subscribers feel if for the next 2 months FSS continues to give "subscriber" content to Free accounts. You damn well know you are going to have that "give me my 2months I paid back thieves" attitude.

HOWEVER.. I think the T. Cube might be somethign for all. Let nonsubscribers have it.. However they only get "basic" recipies. Perhaps something like this

Transmogrifying Cube

-NON- Subscriber model
*your cube is 8x8
*you can create normal mods only
*you can create up to rare gear
*you can use the cube to add mods to items(only normal properties)

-SUBSCRIBER- Model
*your cube is 12x12(can hold more gear now)
*you can create up to "unique" mods (see below)
*you can create unique gear (see below)
*you can use the cube to add mods to items(only rare properties.. meaning you still must augment for legendary)

Unique Items: Certain rare formulas and recipies can allow you to create unique gear. The base would be to create the weapon... you then add a compination of anything you wish. Like "recipe" then throw in 3 large health packs 2 medium power 5 crit rate boosting mods you end up with "unique" gear + 2%hp 1%power 5% crit rate against all enemy types. The item is "unique" and can be named by you.

:) just an idea but if FSS does this right; you can create thousands upon thousands of recipies for subscribers to tinker with.

[Molehs_Mum]

Nah, the non subs don't need anything more, at all. They payed for a game and that's all they get. The more you give them free, the more they whine for more.

[Eternalchaos]

^_^ and the more you deny them.. the more they will whine.

You can't win Molehs. The whine is unstoppable! You can only pull an Epic and just keep making the same game over and over... oh wait i'm sorry UT3 is a bust :P (didn't even manage 35,000 copies after a month of sales.. crysis is almost at 100,000 )

[Molehs_Mum]

What's the funniest thing about all of this is that I'm a non-sub. And I have no issue with the route FSS has chosen. the only ones I could see with any real complaints (aside from the bugs) is the subs and founders who either are getting little to no content for their money or the content they have gottenthas been given away after the fact for free....

[Lillis]

I must admit that I've gotten quite a few really good laughs from reading this thread's content. I just loved the "10'000 flies can't be wrong - poo is great!" (not directly but just figuratively speaking) argument a couple of pages back. ;)

I'm (as of now) a non-subscriber, and frankly, I don't really see what the ruckus is about; that cube doesn't even look close to impressive. And I don't mean the graphics. Personally, my most favoured argument for having the cube in D2 was the extra storage space. If I'm to subcsribe they'd have to add something really - REALLY - neat to go with that cube (recipies, whatever).

Lastly, while it is a choice made by the individual to subscribe or not, if a game element gets far too critical to actually playing the game, then I think it should be added to SP as well. And by critical, I mean like completing the Horadric Staff (D2 Main Quest) without the cube. Imho, this isn't the case at the moment, so I couldn't really care less about HGL's incarnation of the Horadric Cube.

Oh, right; no, it is NOT possible to use one health and one power injector at the same time. The other only gets usable at half cooldown of used injector.

[Eternalchaos]

See I agree.. I hope FSS goes the route of SP stays on par with MP at least for major additions and changes; while the MP element restricts nonsubscribers. At least let people get "samples" in SP of the content so they might wanna subscribe.

Btw... this thread needs more whining *slams fist down* BOOBIES DEMANDS IT! WHINE MY MINONS.. WHINE!!!

[lockwoodx]

Btw... this thread needs more whining *slams fist down* BOOBIES DEMANDS IT! WHINE MY MINONS.. WHINE!!!

Don't you mean MY minons?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8347/theofficead3.gif (http://imageshack.us)

I didn't go to evil school for 6 years to be called Mr. ;)

[Spearthrower]

I'm a particular fan of Tsuyu's "If you don't agree with my opinion, you're an imbecile".... got to love that water-tight logic! ;)

People who thought this would be a direct successor to D2 are all sadly mistaken. They're also the ones who are probably self-hyped and then disappointed by any number of games and films. It's not anyone else's fault that you convince yourselves of falsehoods and then expect them to come true.... but you do love shoving your misunderstandings down everyone else's throats! :p

Just because a games company has made X game, doesn't in any way imply that Y game will be anything to do with the first. Again, a very fragile argument being made here.

At the end of the day, this is actually all the fault of FSS's tight-fisted business model which I thoroughly hope comes back to bite them on the ass so no other companies get such evil ideas.... but in the meantime the non-subs have to appreciate that they paid for a single product, just like with any other game. With any other game, you don't expect to get additional content - you expect to get bug fixes and balance patches. The subscribers however, have put money down up front for additional content, and the cube is just such a thing.

Non-subs have the ultimate choice. Want the box? Put your credit card number in the space provided.

[hahariz]

Im a non sub. And Im planning to get a broadband connection next year to play this game online. And from what I read within this thread and others, FSS is going down the way of separating the online community.

The subs get extra equipments and cube a.k.a "additional content", but it seems that the content given is not worthwhile. While they can always unsubscribe, that will be a problem as they could lose the items they get when they were one of the subs (correct me if Im wrong).

I think the main flaw of HGL commercial model is that they are not offering a service to subscribers (like server running and maintenance, hard-disk space for character slots and so on) but they are renting small content with trivial production cost.
Pretty much agree with this one. If I want to make an MMO, or at least pretending to make one, Id rather wipe the non subs from online gameplay, just like how SEGA did to Phantasy Star Online. You can play offline but you'll have to pay online. Having subs and non subs online is a pretty bad idea as soon there will be a very huge gap between the two and will only result in more complaints from the non sub. You cant please everyone.

I could and would pay for a game. I could and would pay for online gaming. But I wont pay for a renting business model. If Im paying something I rather have it all the time instead having to lose it by the end of the subscription.



This thread is now about subs vs non subs. lol j/k. :D

Anyways, those are my 2 cents. Proceed with the whines lol.

[the_wolf]

What the fuck is up with the civil discussion? This ain't GD!

WHINE!!!

edujackass where the hellgate are you??

[The Fury]

FSS chose an unproven business model, it's been tested sure, but I don't think it's been a smashing success in any game it's been implemented in. Now about the closest game I can think to compare to this particular model, even though it's nowhere near the exact same thing is Guild Wars. For those who have no idea on how Guild Wars works, basically you paid for the retail and that was it, online play was free and new "meaningful" content was released in full fledged expansions. This primarily worked because of the strength of Guild Wars pvp dynamic, and the fact that the expansions exponentially increased the amount of pve content (although admittedly aside from the story line, the pve content was a bit dry in my opinion)

Now the approach I think would work best for HGL would to aggressively develop content to the extent we are seeing progressive amounts of goodness once a month. I think people are pulling the trigger a little too early here, granted the game was hyped to high hell, but still if you're expectations were set unreasonably high that's partly your fault. Though one valid gripe anyone can have is that the game was rushed out the door before it's time, but that's just the way things work these days, games are getting more and more expensive to develop and unless you are Blizzard you probably don't have Scrooge McDuck piles of cash to set your throne on to wait until the game is damn good and ready to launch. If games get too bogged down in development costs they will chase ghosts and become vaporware. So from a business standpoint I think FSS was wise to push HGL out the door early. Now to get things slightly back on topic, as I mentioned earlier you just don't pull a game mechanic like the cube out of your ass. Now whether it was supposed to be in the retail setup, or whether the veil was pulled to stop subs from chomping at the bit really doesn't matter.

The purpose of the cube in it's current state is obviously at this point the latter, because I'm sure there are a host of us who are in the mindset of "Ok you've been hitting my credit card for a few months now, giving away all of my perks and not giving me anything shiny in return...what the fuck?!?" So I think the cube is FSS's way of saying "Bitch be cool!" until they can give us something to stop us from climbing up the walls. I don't doubt the some part of the functionality will be extended to non-subs in the future when they load the next carrot, but for now it is serving it's purpose, new content is expensive to develop and if HGL is going to reach it's full potential. and generate some staying power measures need to be taken to keep the subbies happy so that FSS will have the resources it needs to make the masses at least content.

[lockwoodx]

FSS chose an unproven business model, it's been tested sure, but I don't think it's been a smashing success in any game it's been implemented in. Now about the closest game I can think to compare to this particular model, even though it's nowhere near the exact same thing is Guild Wars. For those who have no idea on how Guild Wars works, basically you paid for the retail and that was it, online play was free and new "meaningful" content was released in full fledged expansions. This primarily worked because of the strength of Guild Wars pvp dynamic, and the fact that the expansions exponentially increased the amount of pve content (although admittedly aside from the story line, the pve content was a bit dry in my opinion)

Now the approach I think would work best for HGL would to aggressively develop content to the extent we are seeing progressive amounts of goodness once a month. I think people are pulling the trigger a little too early here, granted the game was hyped to high hell, but still if you're expectations were set unreasonably high that's partly your fault. Though one valid gripe anyone can have is that the game was rushed out the door before it's time, but that's just the way things work these days, games are getting more and more expensive to develop and unless you are Blizzard you probably don't have Scrooge McDuck piles of cash to set your throne on to wait until the game is damn good and ready to launch. If games get too bogged down in development costs they will chase ghosts and become vaporware. So from a business standpoint I think FSS was wise to push HGL out the door early. Now to get things slightly back on topic, as I mentioned earlier you just don't pull a game mechanic like the cube out of your ass. Now whether it was supposed to be in the retail setup, or whether the veil was pulled to stop subs from chomping at the bit really doesn't matter.

The purpose of the cube in it's current state is obviously at this point the latter, because I'm sure there are a host of us who are in the mindset of "Ok you've been hitting my credit card for a few months now, giving away all of my perks and not giving me anything shiny in return...what the fuck?!?" So I think the cube is FSS's way of saying "Bitch be cool!" until they can give us something to stop us from climbing up the walls. I don't doubt the some part of the functionality will be extended to non-subs in the future when they load the next carrot, but for now it is serving it's purpose, new content is expensive to develop and if HGL is going to reach it's full potential. and generate some staying power measures need to be taken to keep the subbies happy so that FSS will have the resources it needs to make the masses at least content.


Wall of logic crits you for over 9000 damage.
You have died.
Restart in Covet station?

[HerrStoy]

Wall of logic crits you for over 9000 damage.
You have died.
Restart in Covet station?

Do YOU covet the station enough to restart?! Someone should make a multiple choice personality type test.

[lockwoodx]

What the fuck is up with the civil discussion?

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6803/11368509177367shxn9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Engarde!!!

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6558/lobstersfy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[The Fury]

I've got my money on the black one, he's got spunk!

[the_wolf]

The red one will win. He's got a bigger dick.

[Molehs_Mum]

Wall of logic crits you for over 9000 damage.
You have died.
Restart in Covet station?

I'm pretty sure that.....



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d27/Yuruka/ninethousandku3.png

[lockwoodx]

I'm pretty sure that.....


Can't you read?


Wall of logic crits you for over 9000 damage.



http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9572/bitchslapzf9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Spearthrower]

What the fuck is up with the civil discussion? This ain't GD!

WHINE!!!

edujackass where the hellgate are you??


It's clearly no fun when people actually want to talk about it with you.... it's only good when trolling another thread on an unrelated subject.... some call it whining, some call it "spreading the love"! ;)


Both the lobsters lose.... because I have a pot big enough for the both of them!!! :cool:

[Molehs_Mum]

Can't you read?





http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9572/bitchslapzf9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

I can read, but it's funnier to me with the graphic. The typed out way is like some lazy stoned nun saying it. It needed a bit a umph behind it.

[The Fury]

It's clearly no fun when people actually want to talk about it with you.... it's only good when trolling another thread on an unrelated subject.... some call it whining, some call it "spreading the love"! ;)


Both the lobsters lose.... because I have a pot big enough for the both of them!!! :cool:

I have neither the time, nor the patience for boiling, so the question I ask you is if you have a microwave big enough for both of them ;-)

[lockwoodx]

It's clearly no fun when people actually want to talk about it with you.... it's only good when trolling another thread on an unrelated subject.... some call it whining, some call it "spreading the love"! ;)


http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4749/alssizedmf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[MadDawg2552]

I'm willing to put money on the fact that FSS will release an expansion pack some time down the road that includes this cube for every player, if they don't decide to release it for free before then.

Subs will just have it before you, so nyah nyah nyah.

[Ave]

Im a non sub. And Im planning to get a broadband connection next year to play this game online. And from what I read within this thread and others, FSS is going down the way of separating the online community.

The subs get extra equipments and cube a.k.a "additional content", but it seems that the content given is not worthwhile. While they can always unsubscribe, that will be a problem as they could lose the items they get when they were one of the subs (correct me if Im wrong).


Well just to point out this is the very begining of 'additional content' they say it will include new locations, skills, equipment, char classes and game modes.

We are getting stonehenge hopefully in patch 1.

And as for the evil business model, i fail to see how its any worse than a game which forces you to pay to play online.
Granted as of launch its missing much needed guild/group features (which we are all hopeful theyll come good on) but other than that its a fully playable online game for free, or pay if you want new content.
And they did say that they never intend to unbalance subs and non-subs, the new equipment is mostly just gonna look better and have cooler functions than actually be much harder.

[The Fury]

As far as items go, I don't think subs are going to get anything game breaking. We'll probably just get flashy looking armor and weapons, and I don't see anything wrong with that. You can't get Armani at always low prices at Wal-mart, so if you want to look like a fancy lad you're going to have to pay. Other than the obvious armor/weapon skins. Subs might see a few items in the vein of the cube here and there that make their playing experience more convinient, but it's not going to be anything you can't play the game without.

You can turn this into a case of have, and have not's if you must, but at the risk of sounding like someones dad...that's just the way life works.

[edujackass]

What the fuck is up with the civil discussion? This ain't GD!

WHINE!!!

edujackass where the hellgate are you??

sorry i give up.

no use of complaining on a forum that allready has so many subscribing players.
and i see that i got a green little square above my avatar. sexy.

i just found out that it is a subscriber indicator. http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/images/templar/reputation/reputation_pos.gif

oh shi i aint no subscriber.... ima keep quiete yo.

[Molehs_Mum]

sorry i give up.

no use of complaining on a forum that allready has so many subscribing players.
and i see that i got a green little square above my avatar. sexy.

i just found out that it is a subscriber indicator. http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/images/templar/reputation/reputation_pos.gif

oh shi i aint no subscriber.... ima keep quiete yo.

http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11036

You're not he sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

[edujackass]

i did a joke there..

if im gona talk bad about subscription with so many subscribers here on this forum they will all give me bad honor thingy.. thus making me look like im not a subscriber and that just aint cool yo.

[Mercurio]

And as for the evil business model, i fail to see how its any worse than a game which forces you to pay to play online.
Because usually when you pay to play on-line, you pay for a service: you "rent" the company's servers for the time you use them, while it is still not clear what HGL subscribers are paying for.

At the moment the distinction between subs/not subs it is not related to services or values, but it is an artificial imposition only.

Also if non-subs expect to have things like the Trasmodifier freely, maybe it is because they were used to have something like that free in other games.

I'm not saying I don't like their business model (and I know Flagship doesn't care of me), I'm saying it is extremely risky, and it is wrong for a game like HGL. We will see if it will be successful, but since someone complains about it in every thread/news , I doubt.

[Asuka Kazama]

Actually I believe it's some of the Founders who are still wondering what they had paid for since FSS was handed their money and Founders still have nothing to show for it, not even the initial Founder perks.

[Asuka Kazama]

What the fuck is up with the civil discussion? This ain't GD!

WHINE!!!

edujackass where the hellgate are you??

Doesn't matter which forum, civility is required period =).

[lockwoodx]

Actually I believe it's some of the Founders who are still wondering what they had paid for since FSS was handed their money and Founders still have nothing to show for it, not even the initial Founder perks.

Poor founders.....

All those promises of delicious cake for nothing.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3672/nicolasks0ew0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[the_wolf]

The cake is a lie.

The extras for subbers so far are not even worth shite paying for. But still, I ain't want them to be given to non-subbers. At least the subbers do get something. Man this is pathetic. How could they do this to us? Read in a melancholy tone. Maybe a bit opera.

By the way, didn't Roper said that they can't afford to give everyone free play even though that's their attention? So let's open a charity fund for FSS. May the sub-nonsub wall be taken down :lol:.

[The Fury]

Well at least as a subby I feel like an aristocrat of sorts, and they can't possibly give that way, burn the poor wooooo!

...Now emmm, how about that cube!

[Asuka Kazama]

Well it's either something like sub for cool and innovative content or sub for access to the "phat lewtz" like Dungeon Runners did but then again they charge $5 a month or something. 1.0 is going to make or break for a lot of people whether to subscribe or for subscribers to unsubscribe except Founders whose only real choice is to rise up and raise some ruckus.

.7 sounds quite juicy but I can't say I'd be down for candy cane colored armor. Give me the IAH dyes seeing that list of coming dyes they have on their website and I'd be somewhat content. I still wouldn't mind a royal dye but paying $105 for a royal pre-order box would deem me needing to pay a visit to the insane asylum and the person selling that box to be pimp slapped.

[lockwoodx]

1.0 is going to make or break for a lot of people whether to subscribe or for subscribers to unsubscribe except Founders whose only real choice is to rise up and raise some ruckus.


1.0 will make or break weither or not I even bother spending my precious time on the free content.

It's funny I have a green box and I'm not even a subscriber. I got a refund for my account the retards just still have me flagged lol.

[Asuka Kazama]

1.0 will make or break weither or not I even bother spending my precious time on the free content.

It's funny I have a green box and I'm not even a subscriber. I got a refund for my account the retards just still have me flagged lol.

Everyone has the green box for starters. It's red you don't want =p.

[Ironspud]

Being a SP person, for the moment at least, I'd love to see a free content package, or maybe a small expansion that added a few more big quests and the cube.

I'll admit, just like everyone else, that it looks ridiculously similar to the Horadric(SP?) Cube in Diablo 2. It's not that I'm unhappy to see it, just that it's ... so blatantly ripped from Blizzard.

Hopefully there are more recipies, and something for Warts Leg.

At this rate though, HG:L might be considered a modern D3 with expanded online play and a few new features... in a few short months. o.O

Oh, and does anyone know anything about Diablo 3, while we're at it?

[Asuka Kazama]

Being a SP person, for the moment at least, I'd love to see a free content package, or maybe a small expansion that added a few more big quests and the cube.

I'll admit, just like everyone else, that it looks ridiculously similar to the Horadric(SP?) Cube in Diablo 2. It's not that I'm unhappy to see it, just that it's ... so blatantly ripped from Blizzard.

Hopefully there are more recipies, and something for Warts Leg.

At this rate though, HG:L might be considered a modern D3 with expanded online play and a few new features... in a few short months. o.O

Oh, and does anyone know anything about Diablo 3, while we're at it?


D3 for all intensive purposes is vaporware and doesn't exist in any shape or form as far as anyone truly knows. There's been speculation that D3 might make an appearance in 2010 but then Blizzard announced an MMOG in the works and I doubt they are working on D3, SCII and their secret MMOG all at the same time.

[the_wolf]

... so blatantly ripped from Blizzard. ...

The thing is - the cube is their creation at the first place. Blizzard or not. And I doubt it that Roper's mates at Blizzard will make a fuss over this. It's childish and will only hurt personal relationship (and business opportunity). :mrgreen:

And while HL2 was a booming success, sadly the sequels don't look like they're selling well; despite good reviews. Still no graphic engine can challenge Source's lighting superiority in my opinion. My jaws still drop when I play HL2.

[Corth]

Sorry to dig up something from the first page...

Completely disagree with you, that's at the very basis of intellectual property and copyright issues. You can't nick my design and whack your badge on it, that's just design theft. :rolleyes:

but, have you heard of the Vii?...

:rolleyes:

[Spearthrower]

Sorry to dig up something from the first page...



but, have you heard of the Vii?...

:rolleyes:


Are you actually trying to argue that this isn't a perfect example of intellectual property rights being broken? :confused:

[Eternalchaos]

Well if it was a violation of Intellectual property rights.. wouldn't Blizzard have already come out with a statement or sued :)

Whatever the reason may be, Blizzard either has no rights to complain (aka they have no rights to the H. Cube), or they couldn't give a rat's arse and gave FSS the go-ahead.

Btw.. FSS should of made it a transmog machine like the augmentor . Would save on all this property rights bs

[the_wolf]

Plus, it's not like it's made clear of who's the copyright holder (if you wanna speak in a legal point of view). It's totally possible that Roper and Co. does retain the IP, or maybe they bought it from Blizzard, or perhaps Blizzard just don't care anymore and actually has sold the IP (no Diablo 3 ever??). :lol:

[lockwoodx]

Everyone has the green box for starters. It's red you don't want =p.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5541/ist2417977bigredbutton1dd5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


MMmmm candy like red button.... must press!