What's your reason for playing SP?

[c0nr03]

The title tells it all, what's your reason?
I'll start first...
1. I have no Internet at home..:(
2. Want to be like Rambo/Terminator :twisted:...lol..with a hunter build.. or the lone adventurer..:D heroes that walk alone..

[Amarra]

I don't like my enjoyment of the game being dependent on the stability of the server and/or my internet connection.

[lachescandinavu]

i have Guild Wars for the online fun part

[Hannibal]

I can do the game at my own pace. When you need to wind down after work, sometimes I just need an hour of mindless whacking fun. But I can't afford to wait for other people as I only have that hour, sometimes.

If I am not partying anyway, why do I have to deal with lag and connection issues?

[Lonethar]

My reason is a spotty internet connection.

[Corth]

When I'm at work, I don't have a very good internet connection :P

[sssj408]

Im banned from multplayer
ROFL

[c0nr03]

Im banned from multplayer
ROFLwhat happend? hehehe..:twisted: maybe u pissed somebody big................sydonai:eek:

[DeadPL]

Still addict to WoW ;-) & wait for friend ,when he buy a game we will play online.

[Iuris]

I must admit I only play online, but that's only because of the future ongoing content. If that were different, I'd be playing single player for the following reasons:
-no lag
-faster loading times
-no spammers

and finally...
-with the state the online community is in, you don't actually give up anything ... :(

[Tsuyu]

Due to the no respecc rule, I don't want to go about messing up my multi player characters without testing things out in sinle player first.

[Spearthrower]

I play SP exclusively whenever possible.

Personally, I can't stand the "culture" of online games where being an idiot, disrespecting others and exhibiting an inability to type in your own language is "cool". I'm not saying everyone is like that - I've made some good friends online and met nice people, but it only takes one person to be an idiot and ruin people's fun... and let's face it, there's an inordinately large percentage of people who seek to do precisely that.

I have experienced my fair share of "griefers" in online play who seem to find great amusement from ruining someone else's evening, smack talking, kill-stealing, item-stealing, verbally abusing..... and spamming general chat with their inane shit like other people actually give a damn. There are two reasons why I think people behave like this:

1) They're kids (fair play, that's not their fault!).... and you know, I stopped socialising with kids when.... I grew up! ;) If instead of choosing servers based on whether you like their name (i.e. WoW) there was instead a way to automate the process by age, I would be much more happy. That's not to say that all teenagers are immature or all adults are mature... but if someone's being a dick and everyone knows they're an adult.... their reputation will diminish rapidly within the community.

2) Anonymity. You can't help but imagine that the tough talking, loud mouth's main element of "role-playing" is the simple fact that they wouldn't dare to behave like that in RL. This also encompasses the "culture" of pointless negativity, item stealing and griefing as well.


Aside from "community" (used in a oxymoronic fashion), there's also lag which is a big problem for me. I tend to get really immersed in my gaming if the game is enjoyable. Lag is inversely proportionate to immersion - the more lag, the less immersion.

Then there's the Time Zone factor. I could probably get a really good guild together in most games based on friends from an old Diablo 2 forum. Those guys are friendly, fun and would make a great team. However, they all live on the other side of the world to me now, and by the time they get home from work, I need to have been sleeping for 4 hours. This killed WoW for me, I soloed WoW for 7 or 8 months with very few group sessions (aside from PUG's which only cemented my earlier views!)

Finally there's the Pause factor. When there's an option - such as in HG:L with a SP client.... I always prefer to play a game with a pause button. I have a fairly large number of demands on my real life and they don't always want to wait for me to cast recall and head back to town..... pressing Escape in SP is a far quicker and more useful thing for me. I actually managed to forget the other day that I was playing online for a change... I pressed Escape, went to answer a call, and came back just in time to see my Summoner bite the dust!! :lol:


These are the basic reasons why I am a dedicated SPer and why I have constantly driven to get SP some credit and why I want to make sure we get a really solid resource here in our little subforum.

[c0nr03]

very well said Spearthrower...*bow* thanks man for sharing your thoughts...:p
i agree with the "Pause factor", its been a huge plus for SP. You need the pause when somethings come up, like answering a call, or someone at the door etc. :D

[Spearthrower]

Yeah, the pause is so important to quality of play!

Some days, I really don't know what I'd do if I was online. I was interrupted 6 or 7 times in one hour the other day.... and that was in my "free time"!! I couldn't put that kind of situation onto a group by either keep AFKing or recalling back to town every 10 minutes!

But anyway - thank you for making a good thread! ;)

[Hannya]

Truth be told, I could never understand what's supposed to be so great about online gaming. Guess that gaming is not a social activity for me. I played the original Diablo over LAN with a bunch of RL friends, and it was fun, for a while, but it was special case - 8 machines in one room and "let's party" atmosphere. I don't feel any need to group online with random people with names like "W7e3T" who either behave like they're 11 or, as self-appointed PRO's tend to do, take the game more seriously than some people I know take their jobs (some WoW guilds are like that... geez, if I wanted more WORK, I'd get another job!). Yes, I know, not everyone is like that, but still... If I feel like discussing particular game, I'd rather join relevant forum, where some basic rules are respected.

As for soloing online, I see no reason why should I put up with lag / server stability issues in game that's effectively SP for me. What for?

[Lillis]

A lot of great reasons for choosing SP over MP have already been posted. I'll refrain from repeating them, and just agree with them instead. :)

[Iconoclasp]

I dont play well with others , megalomaniacal-wanting all kills 4 myself - type attitude is apparently not conducive to furthering public relations.

Also spammers and a SLOOOOOOOW connection to the servers from sunny South Africa, makes slip into delirium. BTW Evokers rule the SP Enclave

[The Dude]

Spearthrower killed this thread, I can't think of anything I can add to that...

My personal reasons
1) Lag. South Africa, etc...
2) I hate the "zOMG! n00b!" statements when you don't do something by the book. I tried to play DotA online once, I got perma-banned within 5 minutes of each game because I prefer to buy "Boots of Speed" first.
3, which is a little off-topic) I enjoyed playing GW but I found the mindless farming for useless items to make pretty armor that does the same thing as your old ones and the "out of your way" treks to capture specific spells mind-numbing. I loved the Luxon vs. Kurzick missions, though.

All and all I don't have the time to dump all of my time into an endless game, my girlfriend would kill me.

[Spearthrower]

Spearthrower killed this thread, I can't think of anything I can add to that....

:(


I need to learn to type less! :mrgreen:

[Tempest121]

cuzz of demo :D

mostly play MP for fast levels

[Grifthin]

Don't have much time to play - so if I wanna quickly maim something for 20 minutes or so before bed then this is excellent. All so this way my roommate and me can take turns - although it is odd with her yelling "maim!" at the the top of her lungs will stabbing some poor imp in the face.

[Spearthrower]

You and your roommate sound..... scary to have as neighbours!! :D

Welcome to the SP Subforum here Grifthin, good to have you aboard.... once we get a few more players, let's see if we can set up some competitions! :)

[Grifthin]

Not scary my son :)

At the rate she's playing she'll clock Hellgate before me - Nice to have a sub forum since the net connection is ZA is so crap MP is all most impossible.

[Spearthrower]

Bump for people to see why we play SP

[Ironspud]

I honestly don't know... hmm. Maybe I should try it?
Probably because I don't have the time on a regular basis.

[TwIs7eD]

Yay! more Saffers!

I never thought so many people in South Africa would be playing HGL but ive heard alot of people talking about it and see so many in the forums it makes me happy ^^

[MacBean]

I don't like my enjoyment of the game being dependent on the stability of the server and/or my internet connection.

I could not agree more. I think I have an allergy to lag. There are few things as frustrating than plugging a demon full of 10,000 rounds, having it just as healthy as when the carnage began, and having the server suddenly catch up, finding yourself dead because while your client was out to lunch, he called 10 of his buddies and proceeded to vital organs.

OR

Finally dropping Shulgoth in NM, having him drop several tasty oranges and finding yourself unable to pick them up. OH NO!!! "Network Error".

Both have happened to me, thus I prefer SP.

[kondor]

it can be interesting and good way to prepare for mp

[yodasmith00]

That's just the way I enjoy my games. Never had a desire for MP. Even D2.

[The Fury]

Right now I'm just playing SP due to a lack of time, and the fact I'm a ruthless power gamer and I have to have the perfect build from the get go when it comes to multiplayer. So I'm tooling around with skills and figuring out what class I want to funnel every second of my free time into when I go into full on MP mode. Granted that hit my social life will take will kind of suck, but meh when I get a call it's usually either a classmate asking me some stupid ass question regarding psychology, or philosophy. So instead of actually spending time trying to dumb down complicated theories, and concepts I can just pull this

"So dude, what exactly is the will to power, I'm reading these theories for the assignment by that Nitcha..Nicket..Nishem, oh hell you know the German guy everyone is all ape shit about and I just don't get it!"

"It's easy, the will to power is like being yourself to be yourself dawg, you know because no one else will."

"Yeah I can see that, I mean no wait... dude that doesn't make any goddamn sense!"

"Oh shit son it's Shulgoth, drop them nikes bitch!"

"What?!?"

"Sorry man, I can't pause, this is serious business you're on own your own chief."

*click*

besides, making a 12 year old go stone silent after he called me a fag by retorting with a soul crushing comment about his mum is one of my guilty pleasures.

[Lillis]

Hahaha!

[MacBean]

Right now I'm just playing SP due to a lack of time, and the fact I'm a ruthless power gamer and I have to have the perfect build from the get go when it comes to multiplayer. So I'm tooling around with skills and figuring out what class I want to funnel every second of my free time into when I go into full on MP mode. Granted that hit my social life will take will kind of suck, but meh when I get a call it's usually either a classmate asking me some stupid ass question regarding psychology, or philosophy. So instead of actually spending time trying to dumb down complicated theories, and concepts I can just pull this

"So dude, what exactly is the will to power, I'm reading these theories for the assignment by that Nitcha..Nicket..Nishem, oh hell you know the German guy everyone is all ape shit about and I just don't get it!"

"It's easy, the will to power is like being yourself to be yourself dawg, you know because no one else will."

"Yeah I can see that, I mean no wait... dude that doesn't make any goddamn sense!"

"Oh shit son it's Shulgoth, drop them nikes bitch!"

"What?!?"

"Sorry man, I can't pause, this is serious business you're on own your own chief."

*click*

besides, making a 12 year old go stone silent after he called me a fag by retorting with a soul crushing comment about his mum is one of my guilty pleasures.

LMAO!!!! You might be my new hero.

[Jon_Snow]

Due to changing places and not moving to our new refurbished loft until May 08 at earliest I find myself restricted to SP gaming for now.

It doesn't bother me much, except for the fact that I can't play MP teaming with my brother and other friends.

[Lonethar]

Who else finds it satisfying to know that by themselves they are able to take on Hells mobs solo and dish out some TRULY righteous damage? I get that vibe sometimes. Others I am just hit by the tedium. Its fun to know you finish solo.

[Lillis]

Yeah, that is a satisfying feeling. Seems improbable to achieve without cheats at the game's current state in SP though, lol! ;)

[Lonethar]

I agree. Until they fix the game for us Second Class Citi..er...Spers (im sorry..I keep doing this...not sure why..) to improve the difficulty to something more reasonable Im thinking Im going to have to retire playing my Marksman. That sucks. Feels too much like giving up. The fact is that the time invested just is not worthwhile.

While we read ALL kinds of things on this forum, lets hope that SOMEONE in the know is actually reading what we express here in this forum and addressing our concerns. That the difficulty and Elite modes we want addressed is getting the attention it deserves.

Im hoping they give us a bonus for the fact they were either unable or (god forbid) unwilling to follow through with the Elite mode. It is WELL deserved. My suggestion? Unique weapons for ALL SPers who get the new patch. GOOD uniques...! And $25 in real money sent back to us for the lying about Elite being available in the FIRST place.


WOOHEE! Im wiping tears from my eyes over how silly I can get. Honestly? Blame it on my hair color. Im learning blonde might have been too hasty a choice. At best I hope you find my posts amusing. My requests were meant as a joke. Please accept them as such. :-)

[Amarra]

I tend to think that asking for unique weapons is going a little too far.

I'd be very happy if they give us the option of converting a normal character into an elite. I would have been playing elite all along if it actually worked, and I'll be disappointed if the time I've invested in my current characters turned out to be wasted.

[Lonethar]

No Amarra...not wasted. We will be posting our findings in Elite mode in this forum before long. Our Marksmen will be true FORCES OF NATURE soon enough.... Get your hand ready for Elite level demon bitch slapping.

[Rob T]

Same reason as many others... time. With a wife and the impending arrival of a parasitic alien life-form... sorry, baby (can't think why I keep doing that :wink: ) I can only really grab a half hour of gaming here or there. Not really conducive to on-line gaming :rolleyes:

Still loving the game though, most fun I've had since D2 :-)

Rob

[MacBean]

Same reason as many others... time. With a wife and the impending arrival of a parasitic alien life-form... sorry, baby (can't think why I keep doing that :wink: ) I can only really grab a half hour of gaming here or there. Not really conducive to on-line gaming :rolleyes:

Still loving the game though, most fun I've had since D2 :-)

Rob

If they ever make an expansion to HGL, I hope they include Rob's "parasitic alien life form".

[Tsuyu]

I hate people. Especially you.

[Lonethar]

And after I agreed with your post about the gaming in the 80s and 90s too? (sigh) One of my tears just splashed off my keyboard. You really know how to make a girl cry dont you?

[supesupe]

sp?
hm...
1)we can pause the game
2)we can back up our data (when i upgrade my equipment, i need more will power n i must lvl up my char for use this equipment. so i back up my data before upgrade the equipment)
3)we can get super equip because we can back up our data (when i augment my sword, i got bad option like +2% crit. but when i repeat it again, again n again i got better option ^^ )
4)i can share my char with my friends. so i can try the other class from my friend which is played a different char.
5)no hacker, no lag n etc...

so.... SP isn't bad ^^
there are only SP can have and MP can't have it...

[hahariz]

Well I wont play if the game lags like hell and thats pretty much why I play SP. Hell, my connection is so bad I havent even patched yet.

Bugs FTL.

[tod_22]

I'm not big on partying with other people (I get called away often and having to constantly go AFK tends to piss people off) and I don't want to deal with latency while soloing.

[mikeandroe]

I'm playing SP to learn about the game. Whether I will jump into MP after I finish remains to be seen.

I'm kind of wishy-washy when it comes to online multi-player games.

I don't mind it at all with a game like CounterStrike (and yes, I am well aware that online multi-player is the only way one can play CS:S), because of the constant respawning involved. You don't have to worry about teammates, and levels and quests, just hop on a server and go.

However, in leveling/item finding/questing games, I have found that I get more enjoyment out of soloing, because I can play at my own speed, on my own times, etc...etc... I don't have to worry about finding suitable party-mates, group cohesion or any of that other crap.
I can launch and play without delay.

About the only way I would see myself itching to get online for multi-player HG:L would be in a group game scenario, where it's the same group of people every session. At least you don't have to worry about creating a party, and teamwork becomes easier, more instinctive.

On the flip side, I really, really wish there was a LAN multiplay option available for HG:L. I'd love to party up with my wife like we did in D2 without having to worry about lag, or internet connections in general.
Right now we're each playing SP next to one another on two different PC's, and boy does it pale in comparison.

[Vogon]

SP is nice to just to try out different chars.
The pause feature is nice, but I use it in MP (have not died yet)
Backing up chars is a good thing, not for mods, but accidents happen.
LAN option would be nice.

[phxhawk]

I actually was foolish enough to become a Founder because of the promised added content. <smack... dumb>

However, playing online began to resemble work: i.e. power leveling, keeping up with your group of friends, etc. It began to suck the life out of me. I hadn't played online in quite a while and the reasons I quit were still there, lol. I finished online with a level 43 Blade Master in Elite Nightmare.

So I switched to SP because I could progress at my own pace, and RELAX while playing.

[Amarra]

I don't like my enjoyment of the game being dependent on the stability of the server and/or my internet connection.

Some private messages I've received and posts I've read suggest that some people are misunderstanding this, so I'd like to explain it again.

What I mean here is that the multiplayer servers will not always exist. At some point, be it in a year, five years, ten years, or more, Flagship Studios will simply stop running the servers. It may be because they go bankrupt or it may be because they decide to focus on a new game, but for whatever reason, it's inevitable. I don't want to lose all the hard work I've invested in my characters when that happens, so I play singleplayer.

This is by choice, and it really has very little to do with the reliability of my internet connection. It's a factor, but just a small one. The lifespan of the multiplayer servers is 99% of my issue.

[Ave]

Ok this post is not intended to flame, and it follows on from a comment i made in another thread

Originally Posted by Ave
(...) i just dont see in this game why youd choose to play SP if you had a decent internet connection. Its not like you lose anything, you dont have to talk to anyone, you can minimise chat if you hate it, the only difference to SP is that you will see other people in stations, thats it.
You dont have to contend with other people like you do in other MMOs you can essentially ignore them completely and just play solo.
The benefits are quicker patches and ongoing content if you are a sub, so i just wonder why anyone would choose to play SP in its current state if they can play MP


I got this reply from Hannya so i thought id come over and investigate the issue further.


Originally Posted by Hannya
You can find some reasons for said behaviour (my own included) in the relevant thread in SP subforum (not wishing to further derail this thread with what tends to turn into a complex and long winded discussion).


As a little background let me just say, im a loner in games tbh. I dont like PUGs, hate relying on groups to complete games (i too have a busy life and cannot wait around for hours for others to party up with) and i hate kids who go around griefing and spamming chat channels with web speak insults.
I like to get on with my thang in my own time at my own pace.

Now with that in mind i still play MP... why? well cause i dont see why not. Im a subscriber for a start and if i thought the standard game was all i was ever going to have to play with id quit now, i am sticking around for the ongoing content, the base game is fine but i couldnt play it ad-infinitum.
Also as long as your connection is ok the servers are very stable and the very occasional server burp or error is easily dealt with as the game is not long winded, a level takes like 10 mins to clear tops, we're arent talking 2 or 3 hour raid dungeons here.

Most of the reasons ive read above seem to be exactly what i expected, with people having connection issues, this i totally understand.
But past that why would you choose to limit yourself to SP when you can have the exact same experience in MP but with the added bonus of better patch turnaround, content updates and the ability to team up if the mood takes you (which i might add takes literally seconds with the new party feature)
Spearthrower sited not having to deal with griefers and spam as a reason, simple just minimise chat, you will never see it again.
Also others have said they dont want the pressure or hassle of finding groups or power leveling to contend with. You dont have to at all. I got my MM to lvl 36 without once playing with another person, i have since grouped but thats to do item and xp farming, when i am progressing through the game i do so at my own pace totally solo.
Other than that the only reasons i read about seemed to be so you could back char files up to make uber items or related points. Thats fine i spose but to me i hated doing that in D2 even so i just am against it, feels like cheating to me.

What else do i get from being online aside from better/quicker patches and content updates...
well if you do get stuck or have a question there is always someone there to ask.
If one day you do fancy (for instance) farming Shulg you can pick up a group in like 5 seconds and without ever exchanging one word with each other farm him as much as you like (with the added bonus of extra XP and easier of course)
You can trade items between characters, you can buy trade items... seriously the list goes on.

Dont get me wrong this isnt an attack on SP'ers by any means, i just dont understand why someone would limit themselves to SP if they had the option of playing MP.
My way i can choose to solo forever if i so wish and co-op when the mood takes me (and the few times i have its been a blast)
If i choose SP i can never ever co-op..
Anyone care to explain further cause i dont understand this position. And for those who could play online i urge you to put your experiences in other MMOs to one side and give it a try it really isnt the hassly annoying experience most MMOs are when played online.

[Lonethar]

Bad internet connection? Dial-up?

[Amarra]

Anyone care to explain further cause i dont understand this position.

I think I explained my reason quite well. I don't want to lose all my progress when the multiplayer servers inevitably shut down.

Further, as many others here have said, if you don't care about grouping, socializing or PvP, there's no reason to play online and deal with server downtime and lag. So even if you don't mind losing all your work once the servers are gone, there's still good reason for loners to play singleplayer.

[Lonethar]

I think Amarra we need to put all reasons for us playing SP in one thread and just refer to it. We seem to do alot of repeating ourselves.

[Ave]

Lonethar i did cover that point

Most of the reasons ive read above seem to be exactly what i expected, with people having connection issues, this i totally understand.
But past that why would you choose to limit yourself to SP when you can have the exact same experience in MP but with the added bonus of better patch turnaround, content updates and the ability to team up if the mood takes you (which i might add takes literally seconds with the new party feature).

And Amarra while i understand your point, i would say this.

Im assuming you (like me) hope this game has a rosy future and hopefully will be around for many years to come. Will you really still be playing the same 5 acts over and over again with a level cap of 50 in, lets say 2 years? (for arguments sake)
I certainly wouldnt.

So sure in 2 years or whatever you will have your characters but will you really still be playing them, i seriously doubt it unless they release SP content updates which they have never confirmed.

And as i said i dont care about PvP or socialising but surely you must recognise that (for instance) if you can find a good guild you can have fun with like minded online friends and even if you hate co-op you do get (as i said above) much better patch turnaround and the content updates.

I mean imagine 3 months down the road when patch 2 arrives, say it has 3 amazing new characters they raise the lvl cap to 100 and add hell level back in and a whole new area, lets say you suddenly decide you really like it and want to subscribe all those characters in SP are now wasted and you must start again in MP.
Where as you could play MP now (and the lag issue is not a problem, i have a standard connection and rarely encounter any lag at all) solo never interact and if you choose to sub at some point you havent lost any characters...

I mean to each their own but im still not getting it tbh

[Amarra]

And Amarra while i understand your point, i would say this.

Im assuming you (like me) hope this game has a rosy future and hopefully will be around for many years to come. Will you really still be playing the same 5 acts over and over again with a level cap of 50 in, lets say 2 years? (for arguments sake)
I certainly wouldnt.

I very well might.

Not continuously for two years, mind you, but I could take a break and then feel like playing it again in two years, or five years, or fifteen years.

Just for instance, I recently finished replaying Wing Commander. That's a 17 year old game, and I still play it. I can't say that 17 years from now I won't want to play Hellgate London again.


And as i said i dont care about PvP or socialising but surely you must recognise that (for instance) if you can find a good guild you can have fun with like minded online friends and even if you hate co-op you do get (as i said above) much better patch turnaround and the content updates.

You're still ignoring the point that some people don't want to socialize.


I mean imagine 3 months down the road when patch 2 arrives, say it has 3 amazing new characters they raise the lvl cap to 100 and add hell level back in and a whole new area, lets say you suddenly decide you really like it and want to subscribe all those characters in SP are now wasted and you must start again in MP.
Where as you could play MP now (and the lag issue is not a problem, i have a standard connection and rarely encounter any lag at all) solo never interact and if you choose to sub at some point you havent lost any characters...

That doesn't change the fact that the servers will still shut down some day. I'm not going to trade quick gratification now for loss of reliability in the long run.

[Ave]

I very well might.

Not continuously for two years, mind you, but I could take a break and then feel like playing it again in two years, or five years, or fifteen years.

Just for instance, I recently finished replaying Wing Commander. That's a 17 year old game, and I still play it. I can't say that 17 years from now I won't want to play Hellgate London again.

Ok but what prevents you from doing this anyway, i can do this if i desire. If they shut down the servers in 2 months i could play SP whenever i wanted just like you, only difference is id have to spend a week or two leveling my toons to the same point i was at in MP, hardly a massive issue really.
Certainly not a big enough issue to warrant missing out on years of content updates, character classes, skills, items etc etc


You're still ignoring the point that some people don't want to socialize.

And your still ignoring the point about better patch turnaround and content updates ;)


That doesn't change the fact that the servers will still shut down some day. I'm not going to trade quick gratification now for loss of reliability in the long run.

And i truly dont understand that point, i really dont im not being deliberately obtuse that just doesn't compute for me...
I mean you are saying (and i realise this is hypothetical) lets say that in 1 year they have released 3 or 4 whole new areas bigger than the whole basic game combined, 6 new character classes, Hell level, new skills for the existing classes, raised level cap to 100, added new monsters and items, you'd happily forgo ever playing that new stuff just to prevent losing a few toons in 2 or 3 years when and if they shut the servers down?
Thats really odd its like refusing to learn to drive or ever own a car cause one day petrol will run out, or not buying a house cause one day a global catastrophe may happen (ludicrous examples i know but you get the jist)

Oh and just to reiterate i am not attacking SP'ers and realise some dont have the option of playing MP and i dont have any problem with you personally Amarra i just dont understand and 'one of your kind' ;) directed me here to discuss the issue..

[Amarra]

Ok but what prevents you from doing this anyway, i can do this if i desire. If they shut down the servers in 2 months i could play SP whenever i wanted just like you, only difference is id have to spend a week or two leveling my toons to the same point i was at in MP, hardly a massive issue really.
Certainly not a big enough issue to warrant missing out on years of content updates, character classes, skills, items etc etc

If you can, that's great for you.

I can't. I won't put effort into something if I know for a fact that I'm going to lose the fruits of my labour.


And your still ignoring the point about better patch turnaround and content updates ;)

I'm hardly ignoring it. Haven't you read all the posts Flagship's poor handling of the singleplayer patches? We know the problem and are trying to get it fixed.



And i truly dont understand that point, i really dont im not being deliberately obtuse that just doesn't compute for me...
I mean you are saying (and i realise this is hypothetical) lets say that in 1 year they have released 3 or 4 whole new areas bigger than the whole basic game combined, 6 new character classes, Hell level, new skills for the existing classes, raised level cap to 100, added new monsters and items, you'd happily forgo ever playing that new stuff just to prevent losing a few toons in 2 or 3 years when and if they shut the servers down?
Thats really odd its like refusing to learn to drive or ever own a car cause one day petrol will run out, or not buying a house cause one day a global catastrophe may happen (ludicrous examples i know but you get the jist)

Those analogies don't really hold up to scrutiny.

The purpose of a game is fun. The purpose of a car or house isn't.

I derive fun from knowing that I can keep my achievements for as long as I want them. If I play online, I can't have that assurance, so it's not fun.

[Ave]

So basically you would rather play a gimped version of the game forever than a fantastic version for X years.... and thats cool i spose as i said each to their own.

I mean that is assuming they ever shut them down, they might at some point (like other games have done) sell the rights to host to other independents and allow open servers to continue running the content and allow character transfers.

So to sum up then, you are saying youd rather play the game in its current form (plus bug fixes) forever than play an hugely expanded version for a few years and then revert to SP game IF the servers shut down?

And whos to say they wouldnt allow you to download a version of your character to SP if they shut the servers down...

Also im assuming you have never played an MMO then?

Anyway Amarra much love, peace and all that shit, im genuinely not attacking you (despite how it might seem) just trying to understand.

[Lonethar]

I wouldnt have even bought this game if it didnt offer a single player mode. In fact I never WILL buy a game that doesnt support that. And to get the game to support my "Lone Wolf against all evil" fix. If I decide down the road to stop playing SP and move to MP, it will be when they have proved that the effort is actually worth the move.

I read alot...ALOT of input from the MPers and know for a certainty that its just not for me. Its ALOT more satisfying to accomplish this game by myself. And while I could do it online in a MP environment I cant escape the feeling that I am cheating in some way. That I am taking advantage of someone else's mode. It sounds kinda strange after typing this out and seeing the words here.

I feel like what I achieve is more MINE when I do it without anyones help.

Edit: Even with a high speed internet connection I would not move to MP. I dont like online gaming.

[Amarra]

I mean that is assuming they ever shut them down, they might at some point (like other games have done) sell the rights to host to other independents and allow open servers to continue running the content and allow character transfers.

And aside from my rather (as i said) ludicrous examples, you are saying youd rather play the game in its current form (plus bug fixes) forever than play an hugely expanded version for a few years and then revert to SP game IF the servers shut down?
And whos to say they wouldnt allow you to download a version of your character to SP if they shut the servers down...

Maybe, but it's no guarantee.

If they could guarantee that multiplayer characters will certainly, absolutely, with no doubt be transferrable to singleplayer, and if multiplayer had sufficient content over singleplayer to warrant dealing with lag and server downtime, I might consider trying multiplayer.

However, I'm still far more likely to be campaigning for equal treatment of singleplayer customers, and the availability in singleplayer of all free multiplayer content.

Also im assuming you have never played an MMO then?

I've played the occasional MUD. I don't know if you would classify that as an MMO. Only things will a small enough investment that I won't miss them when they're gone.

[Ave]

Fair enough then i suppose, i must say just to pick up one minor point there, i have played since launch online and with a not great connection and have only ever experienced occasional minor lag (very occasional) and no downtime at all as the EU patches get done in the early morning midweek and dont affect me at all.
And as for the content i think if Patch 1 is anything to go by the next 4 patches in 2008 should easily deliver alot more content (and more varied content at that)

Also you raise an interesting point, i wonder if they would implement a way to transfer your MP characters to SP. I mean obviously MP sub content you gained would get locked out when you did but its an interesting idea which i think would tempt alot of people from SP to MP if your views are typical of most SP'ers.
Anyway thats all ifs and buts i spose, i respect your stance totally, i dont pretend to understand it at all but there you go thats the beauty of life i guess.

[Lonethar]

There is certainly the element of bragging rights too...

"Yeah..I killed Tentacle Face solo in Elite Nightmare..."

[Ave]

Lonethar you can get that online to, only difference is there is someone to brag to.
Not that im into that tbh, but if thats your bag you should try MP, you can still solo the whole game if you desire.

I am now going to make it my official duty to get as many SP'ers to try MP as possible ;) in a nice way of course.
Why dont you give it a go, or is your connection just to crap?

[Lonethar]

Im on dial up :(

[Ave]

Where abouts you live? Dont they get broadband or is it just a cost issue like Rubix (who would have to pay some insane amount for a broadband connection)
Dont mean to pry, just bored at work and am curious.

[Lonethar]

I live outside of the broadband area where I live. There will be a T-1 connection here soon. Its needed for my job. Wont make a difference. I will need to see a much better reason than exists right now to play MP even when I get it. It doesnt exist yet. And I have several things I want to do SP first.

[Ave]

Just wait for patch 1 and then patch 2 maybe they will tempt you... i mean techno organic weapons ffs whats better than that i ask you !?!

[Doubler]

There's several reasons for me to play singleplayer, rather then multiplayer.
First off, because singleplayer offers me quite a bit more freedom to do with the game what I want, unregulated and without all the social contol. Also: pausing.

Then there's the point of not having to deal with internet-ego's. In fact, I don't even want to see them running senselesly around stations, as it takes me out of the game, and destroys the illusion. The game starts to lose sense and cohesion, slipping into an oblivion where it becomes a mangled parody of real world dynamics, which I find annoying and most unpleasant, disturbing even.
For that matter, there's nothing worse about a game then having to ignore stuff with all your might. That's where every 'don't like it, don't use it' argument fails; a false assumption that when a feature is not used, it doesn't influence your game experience.

Finally, I hate being dependant on servers, others, etc. I like having everything on my pc, and being able to acces and use it at any time, with or without connections.

[Galthraka]

I play single player because...

I live in Australia, and ping sucks for a game of this nature.

I have an archaic computer with lower specs than "required" and therefore the extra lag is bad and I have enough problems with graphics that any added players would be hell.

If I want to play with other people, I play WoW... Hellgate neither requires, nor needs, extra people.

I bought this game as a spiritual successor to Diablo, to do exactly what I did with that game.. play it when I don't want to deal with people.. finding games with good single player aspects is rare enough in the RPG genre these days.

As a side note, I find the treatment of SP by Flagship abhorant.. we should be getting exactly the same service, at exactly the same time, without the slightest difference in what is available for us, without any exception... there is no grey area, and there is no room for debate, EVERYTHING should be available to us.

[drewmandan]

My reason for playing SP:

I downloaded HG:L off of bittorrent to punish FSS for trying to charge monthly fees for a game that is NOT an MMO, and then forbidding LAN play to try to further force their monthly fees on the player base.

The game isn't even that great. I'm glad I didn't pay for it.

[Lonethar]

Your sentiment is shared by many. Im wondering how many people that paid for the game are wishing they did the same thing. I think that there should be some kind of system where you can preview the games before buying them.

[PacMaan]

What's your reason for playing SP?

Because people in general are whining wankers :eek:

You never - to the best of my knowledge - hear bots using the phrases omg wtf stfu pwned sux shit noob fuck hax cunt 1337 cock pr0 etc..

..and especially not all in the same sentance :o

[Spearthrower]

My reason for playing SP:

I downloaded HG:L off of bittorrent to punish FSS for trying to charge monthly fees for a game that is NOT an MMO, and then forbidding LAN play to try to further force their monthly fees on the player base.

The game isn't even that great. I'm glad I didn't pay for it.


What a noble sentiment.... I bet FSS are truely ashamed of themselves now! :rolleyes:

[Ave]

Because people in general are whining wankers :eek:

You never - to the best of my knowledge - hear bots using the phrases omg wtf stfu pwned sux shit noob fuck hax cunt 1337 cock pr0 etc..

..and especially not all in the same sentance :o

You can close the chat to be fair and you wouldnt have to see any of it :)

[Spearthrower]

You can close the chat to be fair and you wouldnt have to see any of it :)


Or you could just play SP and not ever need to consider that poorly designed chat interface! :p:cool:

[TSS]

downloaded the game. after 25gb's of corrupted hellgate (beta 5 times, demo 3 times) i decided to download before paying 50 bucks and 10 a month like i was planning to.

very good thing i didn't do that. i have been following the patches and what they do, making this game double it's value (from about 3 to 6 bucks). if i did buy the game i would've gone for multiplayer, but MP just isn't worth 50 bucks for me. we'll see around patch 1 how it'll work out.

my quess is though it'll just split up the community more. the subs can go to stonehenge, while the non-subs can not (i'd think so else what is the point of subbing anyway? this would be *the* reason to sub) and you get what happened to wow as well: once the burning crusade hit, everybody migrated form azeroth to outland. i read a review of TBC, 4 months after it was released to see if it was still worth it and it stated that azeroth had become deserted compared to outland or outworld or whatever. i'd figure the same thing will happen to HGL.... so it's an wait and see.

[drewmandan]

What a noble sentiment.... I bet FSS are truely ashamed of themselves now! :rolleyes:

Hey, I'm just a member of the market exerting my own limited form of influence. However, I do think FSS would be feeling pretty stupid right now if they've read any of the reviews for the game.

[PacMaan]

Or you could just play SP and not ever need to consider that poorly designed chat interface! :p:cool:

And save a tenner every month ;)

[Spearthrower]

Hey, I'm just a member of the market exerting my own limited form of influence. However, I do think FSS would be feeling pretty stupid right now if they've read any of the reviews for the game.

By downloading the game and using it for free, you're not a member of the market... it comes under the category of "common thief". ;) I really don't think that thieves are a notable element of a company's market research! :mrgreen:

Really, if you are interested enough in it to be here on a fan forum discussing it, then it's clearly a worthwhile enough purchase for you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not taking a high horse, holier-than-thou position.... I also use torrents and the like (I live in Bangkok ;)) to see if a game is worth buying. But if you're playing the game, then it's clearly worth buying.

[drewmandan]

By downloading the game and using it for free, you're not a member of the market... it comes under the category of "common thief". ;) I really don't think that thieves are a notable element of a company's market research! :mrgreen:

Really, if you are interested enough in it to be here on a fan forum discussing it, then it's clearly a worthwhile enough purchase for you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not taking a high horse, holier-than-thou position.... I also use torrents and the like (I live in Bangkok ;)) to see if a game is worth buying. But if you're playing the game, then it's clearly worth buying.

I could have purchased the game and I consciously decided not to as I felt the price was too high. That makes me a member of the market. If you don't understand that then I suggest you take an economics course.

Yes, I am playing the game and therefore see it as a worthy purchase. But the question here is price. Right now, I value the game at about $10-$20. If it gets lowered to that price, I will buy it.

[Spearthrower]

I could have purchased the game and I consciously decided not to as I felt the price was too high. That makes me a member of the market. If you don't understand that then I suggest you take an economics course.

No, you consciously decided to steal it (if you didnt have the option to steal it, you might have been more inclined to buy it). That makes you a thief. If you don't understand that, I suggest you take a course in Law. ;)

Yes, I am playing the game and therefore see it as a worthy purchase. But the question here is price. Right now, I value the game at about $10-$20. If it gets lowered to that price, I will buy it.

That's your right to put your own value on it and decide to buy or not buy it based on that. I'd like to see how you can value it so lowly compared to other products.... or is it that you just consider all software to be overpriced?

[drewmandan]

No, you consciously decided to steal it (if you didnt have the option to steal it, you might have been more inclined to buy it). That makes you a thief. If you don't understand that, I suggest you take a course in Law. ;)

No, I decided to not buy it and then later I decided to "steal" it. You're missing my point, anyway. Members of the market who don't buy a product have just as much and sometimes more influence than those that do, especially in the monopolistic competition regime, in which HG:L certainly participates.



That's your right to put your own value on it and decide to buy or not buy it based on that. I'd like to see how you can value it so lowly compared to other products.... or is it that you just consider all software to be overpriced?

Depends on which price. The inflated monopolistic price in the first few months after release of any work (books, movies, etc.) is intentionally set higher than the 'true' value to capitalize on the members of the market who are willing to pay more than the 'true' price. After a while, the price will drop to the competitive, or 'true' price, otherwise known as the "bargain bin" price. I consider new games to be overpriced to varying degrees as a matter of course. When the price of HG:L decays to its bargain bin price I will pick it up. Again, this is simply due to the fact that I am not willing to pay $30-$40 extra for the game just to have the privilege of playing it immediately. Of course, I did end up doing so anyway but services like bittorent can also be incorporated into this economic viewpoint if you really want to split hairs. The key idea there would be that you attach a dollar value to the risk/shame/guilt/what-have-you of downloading the game.

[Lonethar]

Out of curiousity Spearthrower, do you value this game at the price you paid for it? I believe the hours I played and enjoyed it are worth the money I paid for it. I wouldnt say I got the value for my money I have with other games I played for the same price.

[Spearthrower]

I'm afraid I just dont buy it and see it is a rather humourous attempt at justifying theft. To run one of those slightly silly analogies, it's like deciding that a ferrari is too expensive for you, nicking one from the garage and then claiming that you are a symbol of market forces, merely a victim of overpricing. With 99% of products in the world, if it is too expensive then you don't buy it which is your consumer pressure, you don't use it as justification for stealing it. Stealing it alleviates the pressure on you to buy it thereby removing your potential purchase from the market. If you were never going to buy it due to lack of interest, you would also never have bothered downloading it and then continuing to play it and also, to add the cherry on the top, then joined a fan site about it to discuss it in more detail. It's funny from that perspective, you must admit! ;)

As for the "true" cost. That's set by market forces. If it really is overpriced, people don't buy it. As people do buy games at that initial price, it is the true price. With media, I agree there are far too many people taking their slice of the pie, which pushes the price up too high for the consumer.... but it also makes the availability higher, the quality more assured, the distribution more stable etc etc. We pay for a whole heap of conveniences too.

Personally, there are very very few games I would buy off the shelf without trying them first. There are some however, that I am very happy to spend that cream price for, not only to get into the game early, but also to support the company in order that their success leads to them creating more and better games in future.

To put it in perspective. I can buy any game pirated here in Thailand for a couple of euros.... sometimes days before they are officially released globally (it's often more convenient for me to do that than to download it as I don't like leaving on my PC while I am out). I do exactly that for the purposes of evaluating the game. 90% of which I just bin immediately as they are utter shite. That's the real problem with this industry, the mass dross that pulls the overall quality down. HG:L, with all its problems, is still a premier league game compared to the vast majority of shit that's released. However, when I find a quality game, I go out of my way to buy a legit one. That includes (all too often) having it delivered from Europe.

I have this constant argument with my dad. He's run his little pirating business (not in this country) for years. He sells large quantities of games/software by downloading off the net, making nice pretty cds and quality covers and sells them at a few euros a pop. When he sees me buy an original game he says "I could have got you that for free".... to which I reply, "No, you could have got a pirate version for free, just like I could have done from a torrent". He just thinks I am utterly stupid.... the "but you could have had it free!" with the boggled look in his eyes. He doesn't recognise the fact that if that was really the case and we could all have them for free, then there wouldn't be any games for him to rip off.

Personally, I will always support the developers of games just as I would with books, magazines, films and any other media or product because, quite simply, if I was in their position and had worked hard to create something for consumption, I'd want people to support me too by exchanging their cash for my goods.


Lonethar. I think HG:L is a huge disappointment in many ways. I think they're a bunch of thieving gits for their subscription service and market positioning of this game as some kind of MMORPG when it clearly isnt. I think their utter ignorance of the importance of their SP custom base and their inability to maintain their customers equally is atrocious - enough so that it makes me dissuade others from buying it. I think they are all mouth and no trousers really.... but when it comes down to it, yes, I got my money's worth, and I also tell people that! I played it for a good 40 or 50 hours and really, what kind of entertainment can you get for a dollar an hour (to put it in the dollar context). People seem to have very highly blown expectations which they have strange and unusual entitlement complexes about. That's the internet generation.

Actually, I paid about 900 Thai baht for it.... which is.... approximately 20 Euros. That might seem cheap when compared directly to a western currency, but remember I also earn Thai Baht and earn respectively less than you folks (those of you who work :P)

[Grifthin]

Drewmandan - You stole a game, simple as that. If someone steals a VCR uses it until the Price of VCR's comes down, he's still a thief. Deciding not to Buy a VCR and Instead steal one is still stealing. There is no way about it. Stealing a VCR because "you" think a VCR costs to much is still stealing.

End of story. Your a thief, and until you buy the game you have no right to complain or comment on the game.

EDIT:

We pay in Rands here in South Africa - So for me it cost 320 Rands, that's a large chunk of my earnings here. So if you convert it to dollars it's about 49 dollars. AND I don't even get the multiplayer part due to the fact that fast lines here cost a small fortune (270+ Dollars minimum a month for 512K one). so yes, even though hellgate wasn't as awesome as I expected - I am still getting my money's worth due to the amount of time I spent on it for what I paid. It's a good game marred by some bugs. I like to think of it as a diamond in the rough. Last night I started a new char again :)

[Spearthrower]

Drewmandan.... until you buy the game you have no right to complain or comment on the game.


I can only agree. It's this very irony that drove me to reply in the first place.

Also, I really hope that this little SP corner doesn't come to be seen as a place which condones piracy... if that becomes the case, I'll have no further interest in posting here.

[Hannya]

End of story. Your a thief, and until you buy the game you have no right to complain or comment on the game.

Now, this seems a little extreme... I'm not getting into "is individual piracy stealing or not" debate (I've never seen anyone win any of those), but denying him the right to comment on the game seems over the top. It's true he provoked all this by shamelessly admitting to torrenting the game (and thus should expect being called a thief), but really, what sets him aside is the fact he said this so openly, while some others - I guess - prefer to keep low profile. We cannot know how many others did the same thing, and really, how he obtained the game is not relevant to his experience (well, mostly... unpatched version doesn't help frustration, I guess). If opinions made on the basis of buying pirated games for evaluation purposes (which, by most records, is actually WORSE than dl'ing them from the net for free, as money from selling pirate CD's often goes to shady groups and supports other criminal activity) are valid, so are his comments.

I bought the game during the first week because I wanted a light H&S on my desk, and I do feel I got my money worth... not the best buy of my life, that's for sure, but far from the worst. I never torrent/buy pirated software, but in my case this has nothing to do with morals, I simply don't want to risk getting virus'ed or badly cracked junk if I can afford the real thing.

Ah, and one more thing - regardless of my own opinion on "piracy = theft" thing, attempt to pass torrenting anything for some noble guerilla campaign against "monopolistic pricing system" is beyond silly. You do it for yourself, not for greater justice.

Aren't we little OT here?

[drewmandan]

@Spearthrower: I was merely trying to explain price discrimination to you, not justify my actions. Again, an economics course would be good for you to take.

@Grifthin: If you include information in your definition of "theft" then I have probably stolen several hundreds or perhaps thousands of dollars worth of information, going by market prices. It might turn your stomach but I'm fine with it. I don't consider torrents and downloading music and so forth theft.

@Hannya: Again, I was not trying to justify my actions from a moral perspective. I was merely referencing the economic theory of price discrimination in an apparently unsuccessful attempt to explain why (economically why) I and others use torrents. As for morals, I think you must check them at the door when discussing information theft.

[Lonethar]

One good point Spearthrower makes is the overflow of shit games that make it to market. So there IS a wisdom to using torrents. How else can we avoid dishing out 50 dollars on yet ANOTHER turd sandwich? Its why I often bemoan the idea of the absense of a legitimate way to test drive these games before we buy them. In the case of HGL I wouldnt have found that too useful as I would of had to play for quite sometime before getting to the part I am at now...the part that had I known (at level 44) the impossibility of getting furthur I wouldnt have bought it. Plain and simple.


Its the most disappointing video game purchase in recent memory for me. I should of checked out the forums before playing.

[Ave]

I consider selling a CD which cost around 80 pence for £12.99 theft... and shops do that everyday :cool:

[Lonethar]

One reason for me playing SP is that I just have never found my experience online as fun as solo.

[Grifthin]

Well Lonethar - if you want to try and avoid horrible games you can try - Previews, Reviews, Demo's, Beta's enc. If you read reviews enc from a wide variety of sources then you can usually gain a kernel of insight into what the game is really like. I never trust reviews until I have read at least 6-7 of them, that way I get a more balanced opinion as one guy will slam a game while another will praise it. Take Supreme commander - many people slandered the game horribly, when there's actually nothing wrong with it if you understand with what it was made to be.

I suppose what I'm saying is that the onus is on the buyer to do the research before buying a product so that he is not left dissapointed. I went in with open eyes into the hellgate experience and I am still enjoying it. From years of playing I know what to expect from a game, because after all - it's only a entertainment medium, not life or death.

[Spearthrower]

@Spearthrower: I was merely trying to explain price discrimination to you, not justify my actions. Again, an economics course would be good for you to take.

Summary: Passive-Aggressive bullshit. I don't need to take an Economics course thanks :rolleyes:, I finished university 10 years ago and have a perfectly good grasp of the world. No I am not, and never will be a specialist in Economics, although I did a course on the Economic Anthropology so I have more than a lay understanding, but please don't try and act as if you are a specialist when claiming that your thieving pursuits equate to some kind of market pressure. :rolleyes: This all just seems a childish grasp of reality, with you considering yourself to be "punishing" a company by stealing their product.

Nor am I asking you to justify your actions, I couldnt give a monkeys. But, you can desist from making uninformed statements about the state of the game considering that you are playing the retail version when everyone else is playing latter ones: your comments are pointless as they are no longer relevent to reality. Furthermore, the last thing we need is this fragile little SP corner to become pirate-friendly. Anything said here there will be easily ignored by the devs who are hardly going to go out of their way to cater to petty thieves. I am far more interested in protecting the integrity of this subforum than pandering to deluded thieves: I am worried that the mods here would consider closing it if it led to constant discussions of pirated software.... some of the mods here have close relations with FSS and a couple work with them too.

As far as I am concerned, if you want to discuss your illegally acquired game, there are plenty of sites that cater to it.

[Lillis]

I don't mind you two charing your opinions on this matter with each other, but could you please do so via PM's? ;)

[Sp3tSnAz]

Ok mod time ;)

I'll leave the other posts here so other know what not to talk about...

However this thread is for talking about the SP game and that's it. Don't talk of how you obtained the game and what value (or lack there of) you place on the actual boxed product...

Ie. if you talk of why torrenting a game is good practice, do that via PM's as we do not promote that kind of thing on the site, whether you are for it or against :)

Thanks.

EDIT:

If you did not obtain the game illegally btw, that does not mean that others should tell you that you can't talked of the boxed product, as one could argue that many people don't have access to the net at home to update the game or other various reasons, so discussions of the boxed product can still be relevant, however any justification of the reason for playing SP just because you can't actually go online due to the illegality of the game will not be tolerated...

[Spearthrower]

I don't mind you two charing your opinions on this matter with each other, but could you please do so via PM's? ;)

:mrgreen:

I like it! :)

But honestly, I don't think we've resorted to insults yet... just strong stances. I promise that if I want to swear at him, I'll do it by PM!! :twisted:


Oops sorry Sp3tSnAz - I was writing this while you were posting! Topic dropped! :)

[Grifthin]

*hides from Sp3tSnAz Evoker*

[Lillis]

True, I was just noticing what it might end up like. ;)

One thing I've noticed lately is that I frequently get sneezing-attacks. And I don't mean like one or two sneezes, but rather a minimum a 6-7 following each other. I didn't realize until now how valuable the ability to pause the game really is. :)

It is a bit annying that SP'ers aren't even allowed to play via TCP/IP, though.

EDIT: And another thing; as of now I've decided to fiddle with the memory (i.e. cheating ;) My only defense, if any, would be due to imbalance), which can't be done in MP, right? Although, their HGL is somewhat more balanced, I guess. Although, I reckon I'll resort to cheating in the end too; I'm just very prone to experiencing the full potential of any toon in any game. Farming is entertaining for a while, but sooner or later it really gets old. Once I've played a game is it's intended I usually go that way about. What I'm getting at is that whether or not I'm cheating in SP, it won't ever hurt enyone else.

[Spearthrower]

You know that if you get 8 sneezes in a row, then you get 1 free orgasm!? :mrgreen:

Definitely need the pause button for that! ;)

[Lillis]

Whoa!!? Men/women only, or is it irrelevant in this case? :)

[Spearthrower]

From personal experience, I am absolutely certain that both men AND women can have orgasms!! :p

You walked into that one! ;)

[Grifthin]

ROFL MAO

[drewmandan]

For the record, I play single player on the latest 0.6 SP patch. I don't know why you guys are assuming otherwise, considering the patch is available in standalone.

[Lillis]

From personal experience, I am absolutely certain that both men AND women can have orgasms!! :p

You walked into that one! ;)

Oh, snap! :)

I got, what we call in swedish, an "ensamgarvis". It's when you're all by yourself and still literally laugh out loud. Is there an english term for it?

[Spearthrower]

I got, what we call in swedish, an "ensamgarvis". It's when you're all by yourself and still literally laugh out loud. Is there an english term for it?

No, not really.... generally I think we'd call it "madness" :mrgreen:

I like that though... a word for laughing by yourself.... a pretty healthy practice too I would guess. :D

[Shotinthedark]

Going alone against the forces of hell sure kicks ass and i can grab all the glory after finishing the game.

[Talamasca]

I travel alot and sometimes end up on a construction site that may not have running water or even electricity for that matter.